Buyer Beware,

[beihan62]

I was just trawling through the offerings on ebay militaria when I came across a "relic recovered from Paschendale",I cannot post the link,(not pc savvy enough),but here is the No,300845811891,it is what looks like the remains of an .303,SMLE,the woodwork has rotted away,it has been blasted clean,bead/sand and sprayed with WD40,
and put up for sale,the photos clearly show the bolt closed and the action cocked,in its condition it does not look like the bolt can be opened to verify that the breech is empty,so there could be a nasty surprise waiting for someone if there is a round still in the breech,,,,caveat emptor,buyer beware,
Cheers,
Don,




Images added on by spotter for future reference 16-01-13

 

[EOD]

http://www.ebay.de/itm/300845811891?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D300845811891%26_rdc%3D1

 

[Darrol]

Well spotted . .theres been a good few dodgy relic items appearing on ebay just lately . .a few relic mills grenades with dets still intact. .infact thes a ww1 36 mills from canada thats been on for over a year.called World War I 1917 practice granade .looks like its not been opened . . . .no pin or lever so i can imagine the strikers dropped.as theres no paint to identifie it as a practice grenade it could be very dangerous.

 

[arpaduk]

I was interested to see that the rife is still there as it is a prohibited item on ebay. My information is that it would require a firearms certificate as it is not deactivated. I listed a 1/35 scale resin model of a napoleonic canon some time ago and was warned that firearms were not allowed!

 

[smle2009]

Bloody expensive too...100!!!!!! 35-40 would be more like the norm for one of these

 

[bazooka chris]

Edit
Its back on now

Before my edit the listing had been removed from eBay and I did a post saying it had been removed now

from bazooka chris

 

[bazooka chris]

For some reason it's now back on again, either eBay was throwing a wobbler, or they have reinstated the listing ?
Type in the item number as the link above doesn't seem to work.

As for it containing a live round, I would be pretty certain it does as if you look at the picture where it's on the black boxes in just out the ground condition.
You can see a round sat where the mag would be but rusted away, and the action is cocked as the bit behind the bolt moves backwards when it is on an Enfield.
So as there was definatly rounds in the mag I would say its a pretty safe bet as the actions cocked it may well contain a chambered round ? And should be treated as such until proven otherwise.
What's everybody else's views ?

From bazooka chris

 

[smle2009]

To be quite honest Chris,everything about it is illegal....it's even illegal to dig up and remove them now

Tony

 

[2pounder]

By my thinking its not got a de act certificate therefore its a firearm so cant be sold mail order. The owner is probably holding it ileagally as its tricky to get dug up things onto FAC's but I could be wrong. There has been previous posts on dug up and FAC so wont bore you all too much.

 

[pointblank0]

To be quite honest Chris,everything about it is illegal....it's even illegal to dig up and remove them now

Tony

Almost grave robbery really

 

[pzgr40/42]

Unfortunately this is an all too common occurrence in this type of auction site.

Over the years I have seen live: hand/rifle grenades (in one instance the seller clearly stating what they were and that they had been dug up in the Reichswald. ...Some even hadn't been cleaned yet !!!!), live artillery/mortar/cannon rounds, live fuses/"bursters", (loaded) relic weapons, "ever innocent" practice munitions, etc. etc. hit the sites.

Far worse than the, relatively few, idiots that go about handling relic ammo and putting it up for sale, is the great lack of qualified moderators on auction sites that ought to prevent such items going online. The idiot, initially, only posing a threat to, again... relatively.., few people (of course any such danger is too much).

There, seemingly, is very little control over the postings and what, random, control there is, is often erratic to the point of being ludicrous.
(Any serious moderators out there, please excuse me for speaking in general, but the instance of the resin model cannon as given in this thread, is almost exemplary. One gets the feeling that many sites are just making a token gesture to show they are in accordance with regulations).

I feel, that besides the individual person, whose actions are mostly beyond control, the sites are equally responsible for these items getting online, thus endangering the lives of scores more of people.
As long as an auction site cannot guarantee the professionalism and expertise (which body of government is in charge of judging a moderators qualifications??) of the moderators judging these postings, selling of dug up items via such site should be prohibited.

Regards,

Menno.

 

[US-Subs]

I feel, that besides the individual person, whose actions are mostly beyond control, the sites are equally responsible for these items getting online, thus endangering the lives of scores more of people.
As long as an auction site cannot guarantee the professionalism and expertise (which body of government is in charge of judging a moderators qualifications??) of the moderators judging these postings, selling of dug up items via such site should be prohibited.

Where is that famous Dutch tolerance?

I would humbly disagree. In nearly all our our (members) countries there are already numerous laws, regulations, restrictions, requirements - prohibiting and regulating these types of actions. In my opinion hold the individual responsible, let the buyer beware and quit trying to drag more goverrnment regulation into it. I am all for educating the public, reporting wrong-doers and keeping the public safe, to a point. Beyond that point, let Darwin's Law rule. We cheated it for too long, that's why there are so many stupid people. More regulation does not stop or protect stupid people from doing stupid things, it simply makes it more difficult for the rest of us.

 

[pzgr40/42]

Hello US-Subs,

Speaking for myself.. and only in context with this specific subject.. my tolerance "kinda goes missing" when, in spite of all laws, regulations and restrictions, I see "third parties" being endangered by sheer, but preventable, stupidity of others (and a lack of laws, regulations and restrictions being enforced)!!

Laws,regulations and restrictions, so far, have not prevented ERW and other (e.g. incendiary) hazardous material showing up on auction sites.

So, in all modesty, it is not the "darwin award finalist" seller and buyer types either, that I worry about. May Darwin's law apply to them, ..and only them.., whenever and wherever applicable!
It's their families, neighbors, friends, the postmen, the passers by, etc. etc. and all their families, that I AM worried about.......it's the people that don't have a choice in being endangered, because they are being endangered (usually/mostly) not knowing they are, that my concern goes out to.

How would you feel if one of your loved ones is injured...or worse, because of e.g. accepting a package intended to be delivered to a neighbor, who incidentally is off on a short holiday (birthday present from his wife and kids, naturally they went with him).

Picture this:

Unfortunately the people involved, knew no more than that the package contained a "Verdun relic" (..said so in the content description).
They didn't know that it was found by an (over) eager french nephew, who sent it to an uncle in the US with whom he shares a fascination for "la grande guerre". Unfortunately they didn't know either,...that the nephew hadn't recognized the yellow stuff,..which the somewhat cracked open shell was full with (the "cracked open" bit leading him to believe all was safe),...as cristalized picricacid.
unfortunately too,..... the mailman dropped the parcel.


Now it gets worse,...

Say the neighbor won the thing on (e.g.) gunbroker..... a week or so before the surprise holiday.

Unfortunately the seller: had the intellectual level of a retarded jellyfish / just didn't give a "four letter word" / was just plain greedy /... etc. etc.
Unfortunately too, the neighbor always was somewhat more enthusiastic than knowledgeable.
Unfortunately too, the not overly qualified moderator, upon seeing the pic, thought: "heck", "can't be dangerous, the thing's open", "that yellow stuff??" ..."weird kinda rust I guess".
....Unfortunately the mailman.... dropped the package.

Incidents like the first I described are bad enough as they are, but incidents like the second one need not happen, as a knowledgeable person in the right place in the chain of events, could well make all the difference.

The number possibilities of things going wrong at any given stage in such a (logistical)chain of events is off the scales, so is the number of possible implications...so in my opinion, this goes way beyond buyer/seller. This is about protecting all those people that, because of decisions made by others, unknowingly are being subjected to a largely preventable danger.

Kind regards,

Menno

 

[smle2009]

Well said Menno

 

[US-Subs]

Hello US-Subs,


The number possibilities of things going wrong at any given stage in such a (logistical)chain of events is off the scales, so is the number of possible implications...so in my opinion, this goes way beyond buyer/seller. This is about protecting all those people that, because of decisions made by others, unknowingly are being subjected to a largely preventable danger.

Kind regards,

Menno

You can "what if..." any subject to the point where we are no longer willing to leave our own homes. What if my car blows a tire today and I get in a wreck? Screw it, sell the car and walk to work. Life is a series of risk management decisions. Make your decisions for yourself and your family, but please - I don't need you or others to make them for me and mine. Society has morphed today into something where nobody wants to take responsibility for themselves, their own actions. their own lives. They cannot be responsible for themselves, so the look for someone, generally the Government, to do it for them. I agree that the Government has a certain level of responsiblity of security for the general public but it is, and should be, limited. Likewise with the responsinility of the companies. I don't blame E-Bay or other sites for injuring me through my stupid purchases made in ignorance and my idiotic subsequent actions. Attitudes like this is why they (E-Bay) no longer allow ordnance. Idiots make stupid purchases and do stupid things, so other idiots try to hold the merchant responsible. These types of sites cannot be experts on all things they sell, so if presented with this attitude then soon sites will soon be selling anything but the same bland crap. It is like blaming McDonalds for making you fat.

As mentioned earlier, there are plenty of regulations and rules regulating these activities already, which I fully support. I have sent e-mails many times to sellers on Gunbroker and other sites when I observed a piece that I thought presented some hazard. In each case I received what I felt was an appropriate response and the seller pulled the item. Beyond that, it is a matter of personal choice and let the buyer beware (personal responsibility again). Get rid of the expectation that it is someone elses responsibility to keep you safe at all times. If people want to take part in this hobby it is there own responsibility to learn what they are dealing with and to ensure that their collection, and those materials that they obtain, are safe. Otherwise, (in my humble(?) opinion) they have no place in this community.

 

[peteblight]

I was recently at a militaria show in Belgium, where i saw a number of items for sale which contain a chemical loading, all of which were in "dug up" condition.
All were intact and as far as i could tell (without the use of an xray) they still had their chemical fill.
Whilst looking at one particular item, the seller asked me if i knew what it was. I explained that i did, told him what it was, how it worked and also that it contained an arsenical agent.
His response to me was "no its not, you're mistaken".

I guess someone bought them as they were gone later in the day!!

Pete