British .50 Browning experimentals

[TonyE]

I was recently pleased to add a British .50 Browning expermental HE round to my other wartime AP experimentals.

These are part of a series of experimental AP and HE projectiles developed by ROF Spennymore in the 1942-44 period. There are a considerable number of types of which I only have three, two different AP and thsi HE.

It has a strikerless brass fuze, probably patterned on the similar 20mm type. They were loaded in Spennymore cases dated as above, This one came in a "SR 1942 .50" headstamped case. Other variations are found with a plastic fuze and some AP variants with windshields. I have pictures of several other types.

Pictures show the three projs and the HE type with fuze removed.

I would be interested to see any other types you have.

Regards
TonyE

 

[EOD]

Long ago I had 3 different ones (solid types with that copper gas check/base). Unfortunately I do not know where the images are gone. Will post them if I find them.

 

[imaokie2000]

Holy cow! I have 2,500+ 50 BMG rounds in my collection. I haven't seen any of these. Incredible items to add to your collection. Thanks for showing. I know too look in vane for them now!

 

[EOD]

Holy cow! I have 2,500+ 50 BMG rounds in my collection. I haven't seen any of these. Incredible items to add to your collection. Thanks for showing. I know too look in vane for them now!

You may read up Labbett's guide on British .50. Plenty of variations described there.

 

[imaokie2000]

Three good East Coast friends of mine helped me secure my last 5 batches of 12.7mm ammo and I have yet to post any pics of them.

My internet connection is so slow, so I don't post many pics anyway. When 12.7 rounds are posted, I get excited and try. I have 10 pics to post, lets see how many make it before I give up.......... If I miss identified any, please tell me.

Top Row, L-R

50 BAT UK Dummy
50 BMG, Early Winchester, 1917/18, Spent Case
50 BMG, Early Winchester, 1917/18
50 BMG, Early Winchester, 1917/18
50 BMG, Early Winchester, 1917/18
50 BMG, RA 43 Loaded in the Dominican Republic with there standard Lt AP
50 BMG, 50 79 - Dominican Republic API
50 BMG, EMZ 85 - Dutch M17 Tracer
50 BMG, KS 43 - USA AP. This is only the 3rd KS head stamp I ever had.
50 BMG, VV %0 (77 CAL 50) - Egypt APIT
50 BMG, VɅ %0 (78 CAL 50) - Egypt Tracer
50 BMG, IVI 84 - Canadian Mk211 Mod 0 Raufuss MP
50 BMG, 12.7x99 SB 84 - Spainish Mk211 Mod 0 Raufuss MP
50 BMG, CAL 50 FA 38 - USA Spotlight HE Expeirmental
50 BMG, IVI 09 - Canadian AP

Bottom Row, L-R

50 BMG, Blank HS - Saudia Arabia APT
50 BMG, 12.7 FN 66 - Belguim AP-S
50 BMG, 50 K - UK Incendiary Tracer. Lot 10/85 on side of case.
50 BMG, 12.7 SF 91 - French G2 Training Round
50 BMG, 12.7 SF-1-83 - Barrel Wear Test Round Expeirmental
50 BMG, WCC 84 - USA MP Experimental. USA's version of the Mk211 Mod 0 Raufuss MP
50 BMG, FA 20 - USA Shot Experimental for AA Gun
50 BMG, 50 HG (HG=1987) - Singapore Tungston Core AP
50 BMG, LC 85 - USA Plastic Experimental Plastic Case APIT
50 BMG, LC 90 - USA Plastic Experimental Plastic Case AP
50 BMG, LC 90 - USA Plastic Experimental Plastic Case API
50 BMG, LC 90 - USA Plastic Experimental Plastic Case APT
.50 Vickers, K35 5V 690 - UK Marking Round. I think it's a purple tip. Old age has got me.



All of the next are 12.7x81SR B.P.D. 52 - Italian HE


Well, that's all for now. It's midnight here now!

 

[EOD]

Great to see!

 

[TonyE]

The .50 BAT dummy in your first picture is Israeli (or is it Swiss, I can't remember?), but certainly not British.

The British BAT drill rounds are chromed as per this picture.

As well as the WW2 experimental HE rounds, Kynoch continued post war with experiments and produced a number of different types of brass bodied HE projectiles.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Falcon]

Those green aluminium dummies are Israeli. Boxes of them appeared at shows like Beltring here in the UK around 5 years ago.

 

[raymeketa]

Over on the IAA Forum we had a discussion regarding the Cal .50 M48 Spotter Tracer cartridge. I am a real nit-picker and stickler for accuracy in nomenclature and I asked if there was anything official that showed the US Cal .50 cartridges in metric. Everyone seems satisfied that it the customary practice outside the USA but I'm still curious if there is anything official? Likewise calling the cartridge a 50 BMG or 50 BAT. Not really correct, but where do those types of things originate?

Ray

 

[EOD]

Ray you mean a metric US designation or designations from outside the US?

 

[exat808]

Over on the IAA Forum we had a discussion regarding the Cal .50 M48 Spotter Tracer cartridge. I am a real nit-picker and stickler for accuracy in nomenclature and I asked if there was anything official that showed the US Cal .50 cartridges in metric. Everyone seems satisfied that it the customary practice outside the USA but I'm still curious if there is anything official? Likewise calling the cartridge a 50 BMG or 50 BAT. Not really correct, but where do those types of things originate?

Ray

Current British military documentation lists ammunition supplied in .50 and 12.7mm calibres. Guidance to the British military explains that rounds made to the US spec will be designated ".50" whilst multipurpose ammunition of newer design ( such as that made in Norway by Raufoss) will be designated "12.7mm". Cannot quote directly from the current military documents due to BOCN guidelines.

 

[raymeketa]

EOD

All US Military cartridges are detailed in the various TMs (Technical Manual) that are updated as needed. For example, the Cal .50 M48 Spotter Tracer, and it's improvements, the M48A1 and M48A2. That is the only official designation for the cartridge. In Europe (and GB?) it is called the 12.7x76mm (or 12.7x77mm) and my question is, where does that designation originate? Are there the equivilent of TMs in Europe and Great Britian? There are several US cartridges that have official metric designations but the TMs show them as such.

exact808

It seems we were typing at the same time. Are these "military documents" the equivilent of US TMs? Why are they classified?

Ray

 

[exat808]

EOD


exat808

It seems we were typing at the same time. Are these "military documents" the equivilent of US TMs? Why are they classified?

Ray

Yes Ray they are called Ammuntion and Explosives Regulations and are the UK equivalent of TM's. They are generally classified as "Restricted" in our system and as such BOCN rules prohibit direct lifts from them hence my paraphrasing. Happy to discuss by PM if required.

 

[EOD]

EOD

All US Military cartridges are detailed in the various TMs (Technical Manual) that are updated as needed. For example, the Cal .50 M48 Spotter Tracer, and it's improvements, the M48A1 and M48A2. That is the only official designation for the cartridge. In Europe (and GB?) it is called the 12.7x76mm (or 12.7x77mm) and my question is, where does that designation originate? Are there the equivilent of TMs in Europe and Great Britian? There are several US cartridges that have official metric designations but the TMs show them as such.

Ray

The German Bundeswehr designates it also as 12.7x76.

 

[TonyE]

Ray - most of the British drawings I have of the round refer to it as the ".50 inch Spotter", but one early drawing is titled "Round .50 inch Observing X7A1".

Regards
TonyE

 

[EOD]

I just see the Swiss and the Danish designations are also "12.7mm" but without the case length (since many if not most armies do not give case lengths).

 

[imaokie2000]

Tony, you are correct, it is Israeli. Thank you for correcting me.

The .50 BAT dummy in your first picture is Israeli (or is it Swiss, I can't remember?), but certainly not British.

The British BAT drill rounds are chromed as per this picture.

As well as the WW2 experimental HE rounds, Kynoch continued post war with experiments and produced a number of different types of brass bodied HE projectiles.

Regards
TonyE

 

[TonyE]

Further to my earlier posts, I have now picked up another Spennymoor experimental proj., the blunt nosed one in the attached picture.

Regards
TonyE