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Ammunition box label L1103

H

hangarman

Well-Known Member
Well I got really excited when I saw this label. The text is Russian (can't spell Cyrillic) and apparently is for Japanese Ammunition but what got me going was the L number in the corner!! Is it British made?? Can someone translate the label please and if you can confirm or deny my thoughts it would be good to know. Have looked through my paperwork and cannot find a listing for L1103, which is sort of good as I wouldn't expect to find it in a British Military listing.

$_58.jpg

Cheers

Gary
 
From 1916, when Britain had passed on to Russia all the 6.5mm Arisaka rifles it had obtained early in the war from Japan, there was a demand to produce 10-15 million rounds a week on behalf of the Russian Govt. See attached, req. no. 586. Req. no. 589 is probably also relevant to this.






Tom.
 

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That label is fairly well known and I illustrate it on P.58 of my book on the Arisakas in British service. It was used on the outers of Royal Laboratory produced 6.5x50SR ammunition for Russia, probably staring in early 1916.

The original Russian request in November 1915 was for 45 million rounds per month, but the Ministry of Munitions offered to supply 15 million in March 1916, 25 million in April and 45 million from May onwards. In the event, they only reached the 45 million mark twice, once in September 1916 with 46 million and again in March 1917 with 48 million. Total production for both Russia and the small UK requirement was 558,947,000 rounds. Full details of the ammunition production are in my book.

Remember that as well as the rifles supplied from Britain, Russia had obtained another 450,000 Arisakas from Japan in 1915 and expected another 130,000 during 1916.

The illustrated requisition 589 above refers to part of the 22 million sets of components ordered from Japan and loaded in the UK by Kings Norton Metal Co. These were Type 38 rounds with the spitzer bullet and were known in the UK as Mark I (despite the earlier round nosed Type 30 being the Mark II). They can be readily distinguished from Japanese loaded Type 38 rounds by the pin stab crimps securing the bullet. Example picture attached.

BTW, I am still looking for a 6.5mm Blanch tin plate dummy round headstamped "BLANCH No.15".

Regards
TonyE
 

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Yes, it is the label number.

Hangarman - if you like non-English language British military labels then how about this one from Kynoch for 7.92mm G Mark II Tracer for China? Unfortunately it is not mine and the label number cannot be made out.

Regards
TonyE
 

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Thanks everyone for their responses. Would the ammunition have been in a H1, A Russian type box or a Japanese type box?
I like the H29 with the Chinese label. Shame about the lack of a number.
Tony, I am interested in any SAA boxes that were made or used by the Allies.
Cheers
Gary
 
I don't know what type of box the RL ammo would have been packed in, but it would have been one of the British ones. The ammo was sent in bulk to the packing depot at Park Royal, West London (afterwards a BBC rehearsal studio for many years) where it was packed in crates.

The British use 6.5mm Arisaka ammo was packed in 600 round H6 Mark I or Mark II crates. i have drawings of these if required.

I have found the picture of the Kynoch Chinese label which shows the number. I forgot I had it.

I will also post some pictures of US labels of 7.92mm ammo for China.

Regards
TonyE
 

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Given the era (1916 etc) & technology of the time; I find the figures quoted here for monthly production quite mind boggling; Especially when you consider there was a war on & we (the Brits) must have also been trying to produce .303 etc at the same time for our own use - yet alone a foreign power?!
 
Also meant to say very interesting thread (one reason I like this site/forum - the variety - cheer hangarman.
 
Actually Hicky, 45 million is a relatively small number for monthly production.

Oddly, there was never a shortage of .303 inch ammo during WWI and even though production had to be ramped up after April 1918 due to losses of stocks in France from the German Spring Offensive, we were never really short.

Monthly production of .303 in 1916 was around 200 million plus another 30 million or so from the USA. By mid 1917 however, there was so much in reserve that production was eased to about 50 million .303 per month and the capacity used to produce ammunition for the Russians. In July 1917 over 60% of total UK production was for Russia (7.62x54mm and 6.5x50SR plus some .303). Production of 7.62mm alone was 150-200 million per month in summer 1917.

In 1918 .303 production increased to about 250 million per month until the end of the war, peaking at 352 million in June 1918.

These figures are only for Ball Mark VII. On top of this was the production of all the other special types, which although small in quantity required much more production effort.

Regards
TonyE
 
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Hi Tony,
My label for 720 rds is L1103, I have seen a picture of a label on the IAA forum for 360 rds but cant make out the label number (could be L1108?) Do you know if they packed 6.5 Arisaka in other quantities, apart from 600 rds for the British, and yes please, can I see your drawings for the H6.
Cheers
Gary
 
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