A Couple Of 6pdr Rounds....

[Darren]

I have recently aquired these 2 6pdr rounds, i know nothing about these rounds so any info at all would be great. All i know is that one is an AP round and the other may be either a practice or PROOF round? or something else?

AP shell is stamped: ?6pdr ?? VI ? 12/42
AP driving band stamped: C AL 1
AP headstamp as in the photo


Other round, projectile stamped on the side: DD(L) 1039976 CVR No7 PAT BS LOT 3 6 '58 M2145

It also has an oval stamped just above the driving band with three numbers inside, i think that they read 154, just below the driving band there are a couple more stampings but i cannot make them out

On the top of the projectile is stamped with a circle with 79 inside

On the bottom of the projectile it is stamped also, one of the stampings i cannot make out, the other is 8/PB

Again the headstamp as in the photo

Thanks,
Darren

 

[Weasel]

Hi Darren,
Well done on acquiring those two lovely 6pr 7cwt rounds, they both look to be in top condition as well. I am a bit of a fan of these rounds myself and have been trying to put a set together for a few years now. The proof/practice round you have there looks to have a removable base plate, can anyone add any info to this it is post war i think.
Best regards Weasel.

 

[Darren]

Thanks Weasel for your comments and info. I have not tried to remove that base plate yet, ive no idea what it is for either as I know absolutely nothing about these rounds. May well be post war and I'm assuming that some of the markings will indicate this but again I've no idea what all of the markings mean on these. As for the cases I'm assuming that they are correct for the shells but maybe the dates are a mismatch?

Look forward to any other info on this pair.

Darren

 

[Weasel]

Hi Darren,
The AP round is right in the wartime case as far as i can see, it is just the other round that looks to be post war, it has a DDL prefix on it which if i remember correctly stands for Design Drawing Land ? and is usually used on experimental or pre production lots. Can someone confirm this for me please,
Best regards Weasel.

 

[Darren]

Hi Darren,
The AP round is right in the wartime case as far as i can see, it is just the other round that looks to be post war, it has a DDL prefix on it which if i remember correctly stands for Design Drawing Land ? and is usually used on experimental or pre production lots. Can someone confirm this for me please,
Best regards Weasel.

After a closer look at the stampings it is indeed DD(L) although the L is not that clear. I have been told this by another forum member (Chris 42 RQ) that the DD is indeed design drawing - experimental. This was a nice surprise to me as I had no idea.

Being experimental, would this have had a special case or would a standard case have been used?

Darren

 

[headspace]

Hi guys,with reference to the mention of DDL i always understood this to be a design/pattern designation,i have in my collection a 3" QF case dated 1952 which nowadays is known as the 76mm for scorpion light tank and similar.

 

[Darren]

I will try and remove the base plate today and see if that will offer any other info.

UPDATE: The base plate would not unscrew with the tools that i have, i do not want to force it so best left alone i think. Perhaps in the future if i come accross a tool that is more for the job i will have another go. Hopefully there will be others on the forum that can offer more info about this round.

Darren

 

[Yodamaster]

6 pdr flat

Hello,
ask the question on HarryG, he have one.

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/6-pdr-shells-t3727.html?t=3727&highlight=6Pdr

Yoda

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

I will try and remove the base plate today and see if that will offer any other info.

UPDATE: The base plate would not unscrew with the tools that i have, i do not want to force it so best left alone i think. Perhaps in the future if i come accross a tool that is more for the job i will have another go. Hopefully there will be others on the forum that can offer more info about this round.

Darren

Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs Darren but you were trying to undo it by tightening it as it will be a left handed thread !

Very nice Projectile that one!

 

[Darren]

Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs Darren but you were trying to undo it by tightening it as it will be a left handed thread !

Very nice Projectile that one!

Chris, I did try turning both ways as I wasn't sure, out of all my tools I have nothing really that fits well so would have to have something made for the job I think.

Darren

 

[Bonnex]

Design Department

After a closer look at the stampings it is indeed DD(L) although the L is not that clear. I have been told this by another forum member (Chris 42 RQ) that the DD is indeed design drawing - experimental. This was a nice surprise to me as I had no idea.

Being experimental, would this have had a special case or would a standard case have been used?

Darren

Darren,

Picked up your PM just now. The DD(L) is a design prefix effectively identifying the drawing office. Loosely speaking DD stands for Design Department which was formed after WW1 and in the case of (L) took over the Royal Laboratory munitions design responsibilities. It covered more than just Land Service stores although the L is sometimes referred to as meaning Land. The design DD(L)10399 was allocated in December 1939; I am not sure what for but expect it to be for the 3-inch Tank Howitzer. It would be usual for the stamping on your projectile to refer the original empty design. Other markings refer to calibre (76) Ordnance (Combat Vehicle Recce) Manufacturing details (PATricroft perhaps) lot and date (1958) etc. So the design lasted a long time.

During WW2 the Design Department expanded and a number of drawing offices were formed with their own prefixes. Projectiles for guns would have a design prefix of D2(L) and fuzes D3(L). The usual post-war 'reorganisation' changed the system again and, while we still had manufacturing capability, several more design drawing prefixes were used.

The use of DD(L) on a shell body does not suggest an experimental store, it could be but you would need more information to be sure. The drawing or a report refering to the design number would normally indicate if the store was experimental. Even if it is experimental it might be pretty ordinarly but made to test a component (a fuze for instance).

The use of design numbers on primers, fuzes and cartridges (before the use of part numbers such as SX, RX etc.), may well indicate something pre-production.

When the 'L' series codification was adopted provision was made to identify experimental stores in the designation but that is another story.

 

[Darren]

Darren,

Picked up your PM just now. The DD(L) is a design prefix effectively identifying the drawing office. Loosely speaking DD stands for Design Department which was formed after WW1 and in the case of (L) took over the Royal Laboratory munitions design responsibilities. It covered more than just Land Service stores although the L is sometimes referred to as meaning Land. The design DD(L)10399 was allocated in December 1939; I am not sure what for but expect it to be for the 3-inch Tank Howitzer. It would be usual for the stamping on your projectile to refer the original empty design. Other markings refer to calibre (76) Ordnance (Combat Vehicle Recce) Manufacturing details (PATricroft perhaps) lot and date (1958) etc. So the design lasted a long time.

During WW2 the Design Department expanded and a number of drawing offices were formed with their own prefixes. Projectiles for guns would have a design prefix of D2(L) and fuzes D3(L). The usual post-war 'reorganisation' changed the system again and, while we still had manufacturing capability, several more design drawing prefixes were used.

The use of DD(L) on a shell body does not suggest an experimental store, it could be but you would need more information to be sure. The drawing or a report refering to the design number would normally indicate if the store was experimental. Even if it is experimental it might be pretty ordinarly but made to test a component (a fuze for instance).

The use of design numbers on primers, fuzes and cartridges (before the use of part numbers such as SX, RX etc.), may well indicate something pre-production.

When the 'L' series codification was adopted provision was made to identify experimental stores in the designation but that is another story.

Thanks Bonnex for your explination, great information and makes things a little clearer for me. Im sure others will find this detailed info very useful also. So it seems that bieng post war as Weasel also suggested i need to find another case for it.

Thanks,
Darren