7.92mm blank hoover fluff!

[smle2009]

I picked up this brass cased 1940 7.92mm blank years ago in a box of bits from a collectors/antique arcade,it had a fired primer and a damaged wood bullet(headstamp P120 S* 7 40)
Today a very nice steel cased version arrived through the post from 6.5MS via SA,comparing the two it seemed that the brass cased was some what heavier than the steel case(inert) version so I pulled the wood bullet and found what can best be discribed as looking like hoover dust,fluff,hair and all! and was then very suprised to find propellant under it! so a missfire!!! and a obvious warning to all not to trust a struck primer as a sign of if a round has been fired.
I got in touch with 6.5MS to find out if he had found anything else in the steel cased one he had sent while inerting it and this one also had the same 'horrid fluff' in it.
So we would both like to know if they had hooverd up the factory and used it as wadding!!!
Seriously any info on this horrid stuff would be appreciated(must of made gun bores very dirty when fired!)

Cheers
Tony




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[archmoco]

Tony,

This would just be standard, i've bought a couple of rounds myself recently thinking they where inert, but once they arrived and where taken apart they had the same contents. This is why I got my firearms license altered for collecting live ammo, just in case I find the odd live one! I believe as there is has a projectile (even though it's wood and a blank) it needs to be covered by license.

The wading must be there to stop the powder from moving about the case, as the wooden projectile is hollow.

One of my favourite rounds.

 

[ajf.350d]

I suppose 'needs must' during the war!

On another note, surely even with propellant, if the primer is fired it is inert in the same way as one with an oiled primer, wbich are sold as legally collectible without a licence?
Out of interest what would the propellant be?

 

[TonyE]

It does not have a fired primer, the primer has been struck but it has not detonated. Plus, the propellant is still there and it has a projectile (even though it is wood) so it is a Section 1 live round.

Inert rounds with oiled primers sold to collectors have no propellant. Learn what the law actually says!

As archmoco wisely states, you only need one live round to get into problems.

The "horrid Hoover fluff" is wadding to keep the propellant at the base of the case to give proper ignition. Also, without it the powder could in some special circumstances detonate rather than burn.

The normal German blank powder was tubular nitro-cellulose Platz Patone (Nz. Pl.Patr. RP) 1.5mm x 1.5mm with 0.75mm hole, but graphited Stabchenpulver and others were also used.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Many thanks chaps,
my main reasons for posting was to find out what this wadding was and to give warning that struck primers were not an automatic indication of a a round being inert as archmoco and TonyE also rightly say,best to check them out and have a look.
Oiled primers? This seems to be getting into a bit of a grey area in some places,I have recently been informed that the Hampshire police do NOT accept oiling of primers as a legal way of inerting them,I did have a debate at the the time that the police are not the law they just enforce it and surely it would be up to a court or act of law to determine?
At the moment I am using a mild acid(strong malt vinagar) left in the case overnight,which seems to dissolve the primer membrane(which oil does not) and contents into a 'gooey' mess and then oil.

Anyway back to intresting stuff(to me anyway!)
on my newly aquired 7.92 blank there is a cannelure around around the lower part of the case,I have seen these on WW2 German 20mm wood bulleted blanks but not seen them on 7.92mm before(mind you I havn't seen that many of them!) is this a type of recconition mark?

Cheers
Tony

 

[TonyE]

The cannelure is known as a "rille" and indicates a reload.

Good point too about oiled primers. I have never been happy with the method but it has been accepted up to now.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Many thanks TonyE,
Briefly back to the wadding,I am struggling to think that it was purposely made for wadding and not a bi-product of something else put to re-use?

Cheers
Tony

 

[Andysarmoury]

Hi Tony i too have a round with a cannelure but my is dated 18 as for the primers i am in the middle of a test and trying different methods to see whats the best and then will fire them to see.
Cheers
Andy

 

[Dutch]

First of all, the blank 33 you are showing was made of leftover cases normally used for PmK ammunition. Your blank 33 is a new case factory made with a primer Mod. 30 black.

All German blanks were made with that “fluffy” stuff. The reason is the amount of powder.
It is used to fill the case to prevent the powder is rolling true the case, with can cause overpressure when firing the blank.

Good indications to see if the cartridge is inert is the weight of it, and an investigation from the bullet were he goes into the case. It is almost impossible to get the bullet unscratched in the case after removing the powder because blank bullets were crimped very hard.

To prevent an unlawful situation, for example giving a cartridge like yours was to a non licence holder, I prefer a lead shotgun pellet inside the case.

 

[Dutch]

An addition,

German regulations mention that a case can be reused 5 times.
Each reload must be showed on the case. (Rille)
In my collection I have a few who were reloaded 3 times. (Pictures follow)

We can also recognise the round at the box label.

Platzpatronen 33 (new)
Platzpatronen 33 Sorte 1 (reloaded 1x)
Platzpatronen 33 Sorte 2 (reloaded 2x)

Unfortunately I have never seen a label “Sorte 3”.

Rgds
Dutch

 

[smle2009]

Andy, nice blank mate
Dutch,thanks for the extra info,had no problem getting the wood bullets into the case(yet!),I understand the reason of using wadding,just wonderd what it was made of,it is quiet horrid stuff and I half expected it to have 'bugs' crawling around in it when I first saw it:bigsmile:
Dutch and Gunni,exactly what I do,only I use the larger buckshot as I have had normal shot stick in flash holes before and of course no rattle!

Cheers
Tony

 

[Dutch]

Here are the promised pictures.

Had no time to look for the Sorte 3 rounds.
Top boxes have a brass case the other 3 a steel case
Picture courtesy P.B.

Dutch

 

[smle2009]

A really big thankyou to you Dutch once again,I am getting very intrested in all the different variants of the German 7.62mm,wish I had room to collect the different manufactures and types:cry:


Cheers
Tony