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6pdr markings
- Thread starter emlyn
- Start date
I think some are as follows; at 12 oclock the Roman 3 refers to the Ordnance , in this case the 6pr Mk3 gun, (I suspect possibly a Nordienfelt). At 3 oclock the 126 I suspect will be the Lot number of the complete filled round. At 5 oclock the CF will be "Centre Fire". At 9 oclock Lot 51 may refer to the Loaded cartridge case.
Quatermass
Well-Known Member
6 PR. (Hotchkiss 6 Pounder (57mm) gun)
III. Mark of case
'Anchor'. Naval issue
Lot 51. Lot number of the case
C.F. Cordite filling, with full charge
K. Contractors monogram.
III. Mark of case
'Anchor'. Naval issue
Lot 51. Lot number of the case
C.F. Cordite filling, with full charge
K. Contractors monogram.
Q,
I would agree with you except for the "anchor", which I take to be an examiner's mark. If it were naval service it should be stamped with a "N"
The pheon (Broad arrow) - denotes the case has been accepted for service
"126" - The date January 1926
"K" I'm taking to be Kynoch
Regards
TimG
I would agree with you except for the "anchor", which I take to be an examiner's mark. If it were naval service it should be stamped with a "N"
The pheon (Broad arrow) - denotes the case has been accepted for service
"126" - The date January 1926
"K" I'm taking to be Kynoch
Regards
TimG
Quatermass
Well-Known Member
Your right Tim, Naval service is an 'N'. Thanks for correcting me, I'd always taken that anchor on 6 PR cases to indicate Naval use, I feel like a right plum now!
An examiners mark makes sense as I've also seen it on 18 PR cases.
I'm always learning. :tinysmile_shy_t:
An examiners mark makes sense as I've also seen it on 18 PR cases.
I'm always learning. :tinysmile_shy_t:
6 Pdr
As far as im aware the 6 pdr was a naval gun that was later adopted for use in early tanks. They always seem to be made by K,which i take to be Kynoch.This is where it gets confusing, Theres a 13pdr case on Spec auctions being sold as for naval use,which is strange as the 13pdr was a land service gun,but i recently bought a data plate off a 13pdr gun and it has an admiralty No on it! I think in ww1 due to the shortage of weapons it was a case of anything goes,anyone else any info on this?
As far as im aware the 6 pdr was a naval gun that was later adopted for use in early tanks. They always seem to be made by K,which i take to be Kynoch.This is where it gets confusing, Theres a 13pdr case on Spec auctions being sold as for naval use,which is strange as the 13pdr was a land service gun,but i recently bought a data plate off a 13pdr gun and it has an admiralty No on it! I think in ww1 due to the shortage of weapons it was a case of anything goes,anyone else any info on this?
CF = Charge Full
Quatermass
Well-Known Member
All the handbooks I've seen quote:
The letter C followed by an F or R for every time the case has been filled with a full or reduced charge
The text book of ammuntion 1936,fig. 2.36(a) states:
C= Cordite Filling
F= With Full Charge
R= With Reduced Charge
I believe that 'C' can be read as Charge and/or Cordite Filling.
The C and F and/or R relate to the life of the case. To prevent accidents through cases being refilled too many times, the cases were limited to a life of 6 full charges of smokeless powder (there were variations for certain cases) and a full charge of of gunpowder would count as a half charge of smokeless. Thus it was necessary to denote what the case had been filled with.
C originally indicated Cordite, in the early days that was really the only other propellant than gunpowder. It wasn't too long before there was a whole range of propellants and it was more accurate that C should denote Charge as opposed to Cordite. The text books however, continued to show C as cordite, but there were a few in the late 20s (I think the service Textbook of Ammunition 1926) refering to C as Charge/smokeless powders. Confusingly, the Textbook of Ammunition 1936 reverts to refering to C as Cordite. There are 40s & 50s publications that again refer to C as Cordite but the rounds are most definitely filled nitrocellulose. I've seen more than one 1950s round (my own 42mm Red Queen) where the C has been dropped and just stamped F. This makes sense, as we had ceased to use powder as a propellant in artillery rounds decades earlier and as far as I'm aware the were no cases in use that could have ever used gunpowder, so there was no need to indicate on the case the nature of the propellant (in the context of Powder/smokeless).
Regards
TimG
C originally indicated Cordite, in the early days that was really the only other propellant than gunpowder. It wasn't too long before there was a whole range of propellants and it was more accurate that C should denote Charge as opposed to Cordite. The text books however, continued to show C as cordite, but there were a few in the late 20s (I think the service Textbook of Ammunition 1926) refering to C as Charge/smokeless powders. Confusingly, the Textbook of Ammunition 1936 reverts to refering to C as Cordite. There are 40s & 50s publications that again refer to C as Cordite but the rounds are most definitely filled nitrocellulose. I've seen more than one 1950s round (my own 42mm Red Queen) where the C has been dropped and just stamped F. This makes sense, as we had ceased to use powder as a propellant in artillery rounds decades earlier and as far as I'm aware the were no cases in use that could have ever used gunpowder, so there was no need to indicate on the case the nature of the propellant (in the context of Powder/smokeless).
Regards
TimG
Last edited:
13 Pdr
Hi 2 pdr,Rickoshae has told me that theres a 13 pdr on a pintle mount located somewhere on the east coast on a pier or suchlike,cant remember where. Not strictly naval but nearly! Would make a real mess at short range against a landing craft with a shrapnell shell. The back of the data plate says in pencil "From ww1 Submarine gun" Ive looked on the Vickers archive site which has tons of good pics but no reference to this usage? Cheers Tony.
Hi 2 pdr,Rickoshae has told me that theres a 13 pdr on a pintle mount located somewhere on the east coast on a pier or suchlike,cant remember where. Not strictly naval but nearly! Would make a real mess at short range against a landing craft with a shrapnell shell. The back of the data plate says in pencil "From ww1 Submarine gun" Ive looked on the Vickers archive site which has tons of good pics but no reference to this usage? Cheers Tony.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Sorry to revive this ancient thread, to which I was pointed by a link from a recent post on the 6 Pr Mk III.
I am posting here because of the comment on the 13 Pr on a pier in England. I believe this will be the gun I examined many years ago, at Scarborough. A quick google search brought up some pics, here's the best of them:
I am posting here because of the comment on the 13 Pr on a pier in England. I believe this will be the gun I examined many years ago, at Scarborough. A quick google search brought up some pics, here's the best of them:
