.577/450"

[smle2009]

Hi to all,
looking for some info on these two .577/450" M.H. rounds as to if British or commonwealth(Indian?)
One has a solid lead paper pathched bullet,the other has a lead paper patched bullet with a copper tip/insert???.
Both are marked with the broad arrow on the primer assembly and both have a 'site' hole,which leads me into asking another dumb question as I have seen refrence to these being called site holes but have no idea as to their intended purpose???
Also looking for a approxmate date of these rounds.

All the best
Tony

 

[TonyE]

Martini

Neither of those rounds look quite right to me, as they appear to have carbine bullets yet have white patches. I suspect they are either commercial or have been made up using old military cases. Certainly the bullet with the copper tube is a fairly normal British 19th century black powder hunting bullet and is definitely not military. The cases are Royal laboratory manufacture and date from the mid 1870s.

If you look at the attached picture of Mark II and III rifle ball rounds you will see that the bullet is longer.

The sight hole (not "Site") was so that the position of the inner cup could be checked by sight when the rounds were inspected. You will see that the top of the inner cup, which was a separate piece of brass, can be seen through the sight hole.

Military rounds made by Eley, which are known as "Contract E", do not have a sight hole as instead of a separate inner cup thay use the outer cup folded double.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Hi TonyE,
many thanks again,there has been a bit of a development with these two rounds,after posting I removed the projectiles to place a ball bearing inside of the case's.
The 'solid' bullet was seated in the case too far! re-assembled by matching up the grooves in the patch/neck.
And the 'tipped' bullet is indeed,as you say,very much shorter.
Both of these rounds were inert when I recieved them,so maybe the previous collector thought the bullets should be uniform in lenght!?
The new photo below will show the difference and maybe explain better than I have above!
Also Tony did the military ever use drawn cases(except the incendiary version during WW1) as I have only come across comercial versions?

Cheers
Tony

 

[TonyE]

Martini

That looks much better. We can now say the rifle round is military and the one with the carbine copper tubed bullet is commercial loaded in an old military case.

The military used drawn cases for both rifle and carbine, black powder and cordite.

Powder Rifle Mark I - high white patch
Powder Rifle Mark II - low white patch
Cordite Rifle Mark I - Orange paper patch, "C" in h/s.
Cordite Rifle Mark II - White paper patch, "C" in h/s.
Powder Carbine Mark I - Red paper patch
Cordite Carbine Mark I - green paper patch

The cordite carbine is very rare. There is also a long cased blank that was not a service store, but was purchased by some Volunteer units for use in .45 maxim guns. (see picture)

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Hi TonyE,
Thankyou very much for all the info,looks like I have a few to find!
Cheers
Tony