47mm rounds

[2pounder]

Somewhile ago Hazzord posted on 47mm 21/2pr rounds which led on to a couple I have but havent a clue what they are, so any ideas? please.
The straight cased one is case length 141mm, rim dia 55mm shell is marked with N 88 C R , fuze is unmarked no headstamp on the case pretty certain shell and case go together. The necked case is 158 long with a 64mm rim dia, headstamp as photo, shell marked with symbols as photo and 6 below the band and on base same symbols and HOTCHKISS PATENT and 8 in circle. The shell could be incorrect for the case. 2pr

 

[2pounder]

forgot to add that both rounds and fuze are empty and inert. 2pr

 

[MOLTKE]

Has someone an idea...
forgot to add that both rounds and fuze are empty and inert...

 

[kz11gr]

forgot to add that both rounds and fuze are empty and inert. 2pr

Hallelujah !

=

 

[Falcon]

MOLTKE, Do these have a headstamp?

To me, they have a British look to them.

 

[highlandotter]

The brass, multigrooved one is Hotchkiss, possibly Japanese but British made. The other is probably Nordenfelt, also British made. On second look, noticed caption on photo saying Nordenfelt.

 

[highlandotter]

Again, probably Nordenfelt. The bottom case definitly, has the 3 dot crimp.Any markings?

 

[Gspragge]

If the 47mm Hotchkiss says Hotchkss Patent it is likely a Hotchkiss made product, The case how ever does not look French, but is likely an after market , identification might follow similar small arms markings. In the photo with the two versions of the same case, the upper case is a built up case, I presume the base is riveted, ( it is an improvement on the coiled case as the body is a drawn tube, these were made in larger sizes as well.) Is it marked, this kind of construction is certainly Hotchkiss for the same kind of Revolving Cannon 47mm. The longer projectile is certainly a Nordenfelt but would gone in a longer case more like any other 3 Pr navel type.

That pesky K mark shows up on the 1915 commercial cases taken into service also = Karlsruhe I'm sure, just thought of it ~

I would put the ribbed Hotchkiss Patent projectile in the built up case - the case being quite rare. ( If you don't want to of course I'll give the built up one a good home!)

 

[Gspragge]

This was a Gruson 47mm for the Hotchkiss RC or QF deck gun. The case is very like yours except yours has markings. Who knows what went on back then, but Gruson could have subcontracted also -
I think your case Is German commercial aftermarket, the built up one is Hotchkiss. Hotchkiss made 47mm and up built up cases, only Winchester made this style in 37mm, Hotchkiss kept making coiled cases at least until 1895. Coiled and built up were the "economy" case of the time, they didn't go out of fashion until the price of drawn cases dropped.

Just hit me, I don't think I have seen a 3 Pdr Navel Nordenfelt PD before, if no British marks then it must be a commercial product- Impressive.


photo credit Wooly77

 

[Gspragge]

Nordenfelt 47mm

These are what would have used your Nordenfelt projectile, images are Maxim/Nordenfelt co so predate turn of 1900 by 3-4 years, pre VSM at any rate.