47mm revolving cannon group

[mach1bang]

All items shown are inert and can be proven so.
Just thought I would share one of my favourite groups in collection.
Some extra photos of the American version,Fuze and projectile both dated 1897,case dated 1898,and iincredibly the projectile still retains a lot of its original cherry red paint.
Tim

 

[mach1bang]

sorry,head stamp photo wrong one,this is the one for round on far right of group which is a 3 part made case with copper rivets,
as is the canister round next to it.both these cases are identical including date 1894.
Tim.

 

[mach1bang]

This is the American head stamp.
Sorry about that Tim.

 

[highlandotter]

Very nice. This is the first photo I have seen of an actual cannister .Only seen drawings. have been searching for one for eons. Thanks again. The Otter

 

[Gspragge]

If you have a like dated A.O.Co dated base fuze (same as in the 1prs of the period) you might substitute that for the Driggs fuze. As far as I know the Driggs fuze
was never adopted by the U.S. Army or Navy. The Red would seem to indicate black powder fill for the Army, but did thy use 47mm Hotchkiss? If it's Navy which is more likely red would indicate a blind round which would be plugged - the reverse of the army! Are there Navy types markings on the band ? Just my thoughts.

 

[Gspragge]

The matching dates on projectile and fuze makes one wonder. My Driggs fuzes in this pattern date to 1894. A U.S. Navy issue Driggs pattern 1pr
here for 1898 has a D.G.&A. Co. marked (Driggs Guns and Ammunition Co.) U.S. Navy pattern fuze. I wonder if yours was an export example and not U.S. military which is quite possible. Your projectile is American Ordnance Co and they sold to any one. The Driggs pattern fuze reappears in WW1 as made by Poole Engineering Co who made Driggs pattern 1prs for the export McClean gun.

 

[mach1bang]

If you have a like dated A.O.Co dated base fuze (same as in the 1prs of the period) you might substitute that for the Driggs fuze. As far as I know the Driggs fuze
was never adopted by the U.S. Army or Navy. The Red would seem to indicate black powder fill for the Army, but did thy use 47mm Hotchkiss? If it's Navy which is more likely red would indicate a blind round which would be plugged - the reverse of the army! Are there Navy types markings on the band ? Just my thoughts.

Hi Gordon,thanks for your thoughts.
You have me confused now,the source that this came from would make me think it would be all original.
There are no markings on the projectile other than those on the base in photo.Nothing on drive band.
Tim.

 

[Gspragge]

Well it could most likely be quite fine. When one sees Red on something like this I think of U.S. Army, I have not any information that would make me think they used the 47mm RC. The U.S. Navy did, but at this date you would see some inspectors marks on it. Post 1900 Navy 1prs that are found with a plug instead of a fuze can have if it remains a red tip which indicates an empty or inert projectile. But the Navy didn't use the Driggs patent fuze as far as I know. So there is the export situation which your round is a perfect candidate for - in such a case the customer got what it wanted and an Am.Ord.Co projectile in a UMC case is a natural and with a UMC made Driggs patent fuze that is also quite possible especially as the dates all line up nicely. Why it is red is maybe the question, but one would need to know who the customer was. So I wouldn't worry very much at all.
Since the case is dated 1 -98 obviously the round was assembled some time after the date on the case and it is possible that the Driggs fuze was
what was available as the U.S. military patterns were all spoken for. It is possible that the U.S. military patterns were simply not available
for overseas sales and the Driggs fuze was what there was period. Previous to that (1892ish) one would have got the Hotchkiss fuze instead quite likely. It all depends on what Am.Ord.Co. or U.M.C. were offering at the time.

 

[mach1bang]

Thanks Gordon,for your in depth thoughts on that one.
Just an aside,as you are very knowledgable on these rounds.Is there any overlapping of dates between the 3 part riveted cases and
the one piece drawn cases.I presume there wouldn't be.
Tim.

 

[Gspragge]

There might well be as a Hotchkiss article in 1889 described the two piece case (and same might apply to the coiled cases which were made as late as 1895) as the economy case as it was cheaper to use and expend (not recover) than the solid drawn case. Of course as the cost of solid cases came down this ceased to matter. It was of course easier for naval users to recycle cases than army users in a campaign I guess. As far as I can tell the two piece 37mm cases were only made by Winchester in the U.S. and the 47mm cases were only made in Paris.
It doesn't help of course that Hotchkiss didn't date the solid cases.

 

[mach1bang]

I don't remember ever seeing a coiled type case in the 47mm caliber.
Does anyone have one,or a photo of one.
Tim.

 

[Gspragge]

This image is on the site somewhere , via member Frizzen.

 

[mach1bang]

wow,a pair,lucky Frizzen.