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.455 auto ammo. box
- Thread starter Rrickoshae
- Start date
MissingSomething
Well-Known Member
Not really unusual.... they were packed 7 rounds to a box for the Colt 1911 pistols in 455 webley automatic that were issued (mainley) to the navy in WW1. They had a 7 round magazine. They also had Webley auto pistols that were in service in the same calliber.
thanks for that, didn't realise the Colt was chambered for them too. Dave
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
.455 Auto
I am afraid that you are incorrect. The Royal Navy did not have any .455 Colt pistols in WWI. They had the Webley self-loader. The RNAS had a number of Colt Government Model pistols in .45 ACP that had 20 round Beesley magazines.
The Colt Government Model pistols chambered for the British .455 SL round were ordered for the Royal Flying Corps. The early models were serial numbered within the normal Colt range except that they had a special W (for Webley) prefix serial number, but when the order for 5,000 pistols was placed in January 1918 the "W" serials were run in parallel with similarly numbered Colt "C" commercial serials. In total about 13,000 .455" Colts were supplied to the RFC. They were kept in service post-war and served the RAF throughout WW2. The packet pictured was for these and the RN Webleys.
Here is a WWI packet label for the .455" SL round for the Webley and Colt pistols. Note the "NOT FOR REVOLVERS" overstamp.
Regards
TonyE
I am afraid that you are incorrect. The Royal Navy did not have any .455 Colt pistols in WWI. They had the Webley self-loader. The RNAS had a number of Colt Government Model pistols in .45 ACP that had 20 round Beesley magazines.
The Colt Government Model pistols chambered for the British .455 SL round were ordered for the Royal Flying Corps. The early models were serial numbered within the normal Colt range except that they had a special W (for Webley) prefix serial number, but when the order for 5,000 pistols was placed in January 1918 the "W" serials were run in parallel with similarly numbered Colt "C" commercial serials. In total about 13,000 .455" Colts were supplied to the RFC. They were kept in service post-war and served the RAF throughout WW2. The packet pictured was for these and the RN Webleys.
Here is a WWI packet label for the .455" SL round for the Webley and Colt pistols. Note the "NOT FOR REVOLVERS" overstamp.
Regards
TonyE
MissingSomething
Well-Known Member
Thanks TonyE for the correction.... I dont know why I was thinking they were Navy issue.....
Here is some pictures for your viewing pleasure of the Colt 1911 in .455 ELEY...
Here is some pictures for your viewing pleasure of the Colt 1911 in .455 ELEY...
MissingSomething
Well-Known Member
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Colts
That is a very nice pistol. I don't know if you have invested $100 in a Colt letter, but here is what I can tell you about your pistol.
It is difficult to give an exact date for the British contract Colts due to Colt's habit of not assembling and shipping pistols in serial number order. Also, their allocation of serial numbers to the "W" series of .455" pistols is confusing as described in my previous post. For example, the RFC/RAF pistols range from W91100 to W110969, approximately 16,500 pistols, yet only 10,000 were manufactured.
Colt records only show the lowest and highest serial in each shipment so one cannot say when a particular pistol was actually shipped.
Your pistol, W91690, could have been in any of the following shipments:
30th March 1917, 300 guns within S/Nos W91100-W95000, shipped to the London Armoury Company, Contract 94/P/1118.
6th April 1917, 200 guns within S/Nos W91600-W97000 shipped to the London Armoury Company, Contract 94/P/1118.
2nd October 1917, 300 guns within S/Nos 91500-W100000 and
2nd November 1917, 200 guns within S/Nos W91600-W100100, both to the London Armoury Company under an Air Service order.
21st February 1918, 100 guns within S/Nos W91100-W100500 shipped to Sir Connop Guthrie, English Gov't, New York, Contract US1139-MM67.
Apart from the serial number range, we know it was shipped before April 1918 from the proof marks. The pennants on the the crossed pennants proof mark of your pistol have split tails, indicating proof at RSAF Enfield. After that date they were inspected and proofed by a British inspector, G.W.R.Steadman, at Colts and the proof mark used then had rounded pennants.
I know, I should get out more...
Regards
TonyE
That is a very nice pistol. I don't know if you have invested $100 in a Colt letter, but here is what I can tell you about your pistol.
It is difficult to give an exact date for the British contract Colts due to Colt's habit of not assembling and shipping pistols in serial number order. Also, their allocation of serial numbers to the "W" series of .455" pistols is confusing as described in my previous post. For example, the RFC/RAF pistols range from W91100 to W110969, approximately 16,500 pistols, yet only 10,000 were manufactured.
Colt records only show the lowest and highest serial in each shipment so one cannot say when a particular pistol was actually shipped.
Your pistol, W91690, could have been in any of the following shipments:
30th March 1917, 300 guns within S/Nos W91100-W95000, shipped to the London Armoury Company, Contract 94/P/1118.
6th April 1917, 200 guns within S/Nos W91600-W97000 shipped to the London Armoury Company, Contract 94/P/1118.
2nd October 1917, 300 guns within S/Nos 91500-W100000 and
2nd November 1917, 200 guns within S/Nos W91600-W100100, both to the London Armoury Company under an Air Service order.
21st February 1918, 100 guns within S/Nos W91100-W100500 shipped to Sir Connop Guthrie, English Gov't, New York, Contract US1139-MM67.
Apart from the serial number range, we know it was shipped before April 1918 from the proof marks. The pennants on the the crossed pennants proof mark of your pistol have split tails, indicating proof at RSAF Enfield. After that date they were inspected and proofed by a British inspector, G.W.R.Steadman, at Colts and the proof mark used then had rounded pennants.
I know, I should get out more...
Regards
TonyE
hmm, perhaps we should stay in more and start reading! Thanks Tony, most impressed! Don't suppose you know what I did with those experimental 15mm BESA projectiles do you?! Dave
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Besa projs
No I don't know what you did with them, but if I did know I wouldn't tell you because I need them for my own collection (assuming they were for the British 15mm?)
I had one of the aluminium cored practice projs made by Kynoch, but I foolishly traded it out many moons ago. Always on the look-out for another one, preferably loaded this time. I also need a 15mm drill round by Parker Hale with the PH headstamp. (I have it in 7.92 BESA)
All the best,
TonyE
No I don't know what you did with them, but if I did know I wouldn't tell you because I need them for my own collection (assuming they were for the British 15mm?)
I had one of the aluminium cored practice projs made by Kynoch, but I foolishly traded it out many moons ago. Always on the look-out for another one, preferably loaded this time. I also need a 15mm drill round by Parker Hale with the PH headstamp. (I have it in 7.92 BESA)
All the best,
TonyE
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Besa projs
Rick - very nice selection of experimental British projs. If I had found them I certainly would not have given them back!
The two .5 calibre steel projs are part of a series that ere developed mid war to try to increase penetration ovedr the US made AP rounds then in service. I have an example also that is different to yours and I have seen others. I will post a picture later.
I also think I might have a drawing of the 15mm Explosive round. I will check and if so post that as well.
Regards
Tony
Rick - very nice selection of experimental British projs. If I had found them I certainly would not have given them back!
The two .5 calibre steel projs are part of a series that ere developed mid war to try to increase penetration ovedr the US made AP rounds then in service. I have an example also that is different to yours and I have seen others. I will post a picture later.
I also think I might have a drawing of the 15mm Explosive round. I will check and if so post that as well.
Regards
Tony
thanks Tony, Dave
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
.5
I have checked my drawings and unfortunately I do not have one for the 15mm explosive proj. I have ones for H.E, shell for the .661", .75" and .8" guns, but these are all internally base fused types.
Your one may have been intended for the necked down 20/15mm Hispano rather than the BESA, but either way it is a very nice item.
Regards
TonyE
I have checked my drawings and unfortunately I do not have one for the 15mm explosive proj. I have ones for H.E, shell for the .661", .75" and .8" guns, but these are all internally base fused types.
Your one may have been intended for the necked down 20/15mm Hispano rather than the BESA, but either way it is a very nice item.
Regards
TonyE
thanks Tony, Dave