38mm UK Home Office cartidge

[erannbauer]

Has anyone any knowledge about an experimental UK Home Office CAST project to propose a CS filled 38mm cartridge for the then HK 38mm baton guns used in armed policing called the DIP..? We are researching Less Lethal munitions and this came up in conversation..? Rumour was this had a lightweight polystyrene projectile...?

 

[reccetrooper]

I haven’t seen the projectile, but I do have an empty case marked ROUND 37mm DIP.

I am aware that the initial description of both AEP and DIP was contained in a document entitled “Patten Report Recommendations 69 & 70 Relating to Public Order Equipment: A Research Programme into Alternative Policing Approaches Towards the Management of Conflict, the Third Report by the Steering Group led by the Northern Ireland Office, in Consultation with the Association of Chief Police Officers” but I have not seen the document and do not know if it is in the public domain.

I would be interested to hear what you manage to find out about DIP.

 

[erannbauer]

I haven’t seen the projectile, but I do have an empty case marked ROUND 37mm DIP.

I am aware that the initial description of both AEP and DIP was contained in a document entitled “Patten Report Recommendations 69 & 70 Relating to Public Order Equipment: A Research Programme into Alternative Policing Approaches Towards the Management of Conflict, the Third Report by the Steering Group led by the Northern Ireland Office, in Consultation with the Association of Chief Police Officers” but I have not seen the document and do not know if it is in the public domain.

I would be interested to hear what you manage to find out about DIP.

Thanks reccetrooper - really useful and you'll find the report in NI CAIN - https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/police/docs/niobatonreport2-1201.pdf in full. Been in our archives for some time and interesting info on less lethal options at that time @ 2001. If you ever wanted to swap your DIP for something 'interesting' from our collection, willing to discuss. To date no-one's ever seen the projectile the DIP fired. Photos of the first true UK less lethal demo at RMCS Shrivenham with my demo of all available sock, solid, multiple, liquid filled and OC projectiles before the DIP was conceived. Decades later I'm still working on new non lethal kinetics, as I invented PAVA now carried on all UK police belts.

 

[reccetrooper]

Interesting document, I will have a read of it over the holidays, however that document is the second report and I believe it is the third report that contains the initial description of AEP and DIP.

 

[reccetrooper]

I’ve found the third report in CAIN. It looks like more interesting reading for the holidays.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/police/docs/niobatonreport3-1202.pdf

 

[reccetrooper]

There is an image of a DIP projectile on page 32 of the Home Office Scientific Branch publication
“Less Lethal Technologies
Review of Commercially Available and Near-Market Products for the Association of Chief Police Officers
Publication No. 49/08”
Several websites are hosting the publication.