37mm head and rimmed casing???

[DOODLE]

Today I've found a french Mle. 1916 37mm head an a wierd german 37mm casing. (please click the pictures for a lager version)




The german casing is about 1cm higher than a normal german 37mm casing, and has a rim. (is this the correct term?)
From Gspragge's pictures, I think it's a Nordenfelt 37x101.
Following picture shows a normal on top, and the bigger one bottom.




Next question is how I have to put 1 and 1 together with wich I mean ofcourse, wich
casing I need for the Mle.1916 and wich german projectile would be right for the rimmed casing.


I've got some laying around so I hope the following 2 pictures are a correct representation.






It's a pitty that the french head has lost his copper drive-bands, but I'm sure I'll find


another. (altough I know they're pretty rare, from time to time I've seen one.)


And as said, I've browsed trough Gspragge's pictures but the one pic about the Mle1916


is just to small for me to clearly see the headstamps on the casings he has on his.


So, I hope you can give me some more info, and ofcourse your approval on the final


pictures.




Thanks

 

[Weasel]

Hi Doodle,
The case is German and for the Sockleflak (Incendiary) round. And yes it looks like you have the correct projectile in that in the last picture.
Best regards Weasel.

 

[Falcon]

The Sockelflak case was made for a different gun to the regular 37x94R Hotchkiss. The Sockelflak was a short-barreled gun designed to be mounted on Zeppelins.

These cases are often found with 37mm Hotchkiss projectiles.

 

[DOODLE]

Thanks for the replies so far.
Just to be clear, I found the german casing and the frenchy each on different locations.
(the french one I found jammed in a 37mm 1942 US tank casing :tinysmile_angry2_t

And thanks Weasel for comfirming the completion of the german round.

But did I also put the right casing on the french Mle 1916? Or does it has to have another kind of headstamp?

 

[Weasel]

Hi Doodle,
Well Gordon would be the one to answer that question really but i would be happy putting those two together.
Best regards Weasel

 

[Gspragge]

Hi; French cases were reloaded,but they made millions so a later dated French case might be better. If you can make out
the date on the projectile just match it up with the same year case. These are usually dated 17 or 18,
I haven't seen one for 1916 yet. You have the German correct, and if you use the same type of tracer projectile
in the 37x94 case line up the crimp marks with the groove in the projectile and you see that the band sits about 1/4"
above the case. The 1914 case is just the thing if you find a 1915 dated common shell Mle 1888.
The Mle 1916 HE projectiles aren't particularly rare. Does yours have the internal parts.

 

[DOODLE]

I've taken some pictures of the 37mm rounds and casings I have so far. Whilst getting them together I've found out I've have had an
sockelflack casing without knowing. But it's sawn off... Damned. (ass always please CLICK on the pics for a larger version ;-) )
And I've tried placing the heads higher in their casing, but they drop back down to the drive-band, probably because it isn't a tight fit anymore.
Which can not being sad about the shiny one. I've tried to get it out of it's casing to fit on the sockelflak one, but it won't budge.
And I will not try again becaust altough I tried to be as carefull as I could, I still left some dents all over. :-(


Also here a picture of the sorts of markings I could see (In the marine version I have the roman cipers: I, III and IX -not all on the pic-)


the 3 on top are the normal ones, the 2 at the bottom are the sockelflak ones, with the shortened (damaged rather...) one on the right.

I also have 3 french rounds and I assume they're the MLE1888 you're talking about.
The 2 shiny ones come with a nice trenchart casing of which one is from february 16
(I don't always check ALL the details when I buy something, yet this makes it more exciting to discover afterwards. )
So if you've haven't seen one from 1916 well, now you have ... And I won't use it on that other french round tough because it's part of a couple.


And about them internals, I don't know... I cant get the top screwn off due to the state of the round.

I also have 2 french casings same hight as the others -the 2 dark ones on the left- , but from the markings I think they're from 1939.. Is that possible?
you can't see it clearly in the picture but this is what's stamped: ( ATE 37-37 29L 39 )


One round I'm also very happy with is that nice UK 1 pounder (I hope I'm correct with this)
The casing (2 of them as you can see) I've found at a flea-market just across the border in France.
The head I've found not so long ago also at a flea-market here in Belgium.
And as I presume this is a one-pounder I think I also have his big brother, altough from an era later (1939) the 2-pounder.


So, feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, and write your toughts and ideas about this all...

Thanks

 

[orpheus72]

Doodle,

Before attempting any manipulations, be sure they are inert !

I've tried to get it out of it's casing to fit on the sockelflak one, but it won't budge.
And I will not try again becaust altough I tried to be as carefull as I could, I still left some dents all over. :-(

Most of the 'shiny' cased ones are stuck in their cases due to the amount of polish they've seen
You can still try removing the projectile by inertia....use a piece of 40mm plastic sink drainage pipe, it will fit the round perfectly....

And about them internals, I don't know... I cant get the top screwn off due to the state of the round.

If you don't know it's 100% inert, just don't touch it (a number of them are still live).

You can soak it in WD40, it will come loose after some time.
And don't forget, these Mle.1916 HE rounds used left hand threaded fuzes !