.303 rimless ?

[reccetrooper]

A collector in France sent me these photo's to help identify a cartridge he received in a collection of .303 rounds. I think it is a .303 rimless, but it's not my area of knowledge.
Headstamp is R 17 L VII
He would appreciate any information, thank you.

 

[TonyE]

Almost certainly a fake, or possibly had the rimmed turned off to work in a 7.7 Japanese rifle. Notice on your round how close the headstamp characters are to the edge where the rim has been removed. The WWI era .303 Rimless had a fatter body, a headstamp "R^L" 1918 I" or similar and the bullet was seated deeper to maintain overall length.

Post WWI .303 Rimless rounds (and there were several different designs) also looked entirely different.

Pictures of 1918 ball and AP rounds attached.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

I agree that it is a fake,photo of a .303" rimless headstamp

Tony

 

[reccetrooper]

Thank you gentlemen, I have sent an email to the owner.

 

[ydnum303]

Hi All,

This could have been done to provide rounds to fit in a sporting rifle. Daniel Fraser was a gunsmith from Edinburgh who made and sold rifles in a range of his own proprietry calibres, amongst which was a "Fraser .303 Rimless", which was purely the rimmed round with the rim turned off and an extractor groove added. Most of them I have seen have had sporting type bullets in them (usually with Fraser's patent oblique ratchet bullet), and with the headstamp of either "ELEY . LONDON ." or "FRASER . EDINBURGH ."

There was another Fraser calibre, the .303 Velox Mauser, which used a rimless case, but in that calibre it was the 7.65x54 Mauser.

Regards,
Roger.

 

[hangarman]

I have some wooden bulleted drill rounds bought as 7.92 drill rounds that are actually 303 cases with the rim turned off and a groove machined in. I believe they were Danish post war manufacture utilising wartime cases.
Hangarman

 

[smle2009]

Hi Hangerman,
any chance of a photo of these please, I have the same sort of thing but made from a 7.92mm Besa case,headstamped R^L 43 Z II( II within a circle,Danish cancellation mark) and three grooves around the lower half of the case.

Cheers
Tony

 

[hangarman]

Hi Tony,
Here is a pictyre of my .303/7.92 drill rounds. on the left we have a standard .303 wooden bulleted drill round, the next 5 are h/s K2 1940 VII they all have a fired primer, round firing pin not the oval type used with a BESA mg(K2 is kynoch standish) the round on the right is a british 7.92 drill round(well i think its British but it has no flutes, has an empty primer pocket and is h/s K42 llZ The bullet is a cn jacket over a wooden dowel.)



Hope this makes sense!
Cheers
Hangarman

 

[smle2009]

Many thanks Hangerman,very interesting

Cheers
Tony