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25x39B XM25

SG500

SG500

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Attached are a few photos of a recent addition to the collection, a 25 x 39B XM25.
Tony Williams gives more details on the attached link:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/grenades.htm
Further info would be of interest.
Thanks.

Dave.
 

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Very nice, Dave, I've been looking for one of those for ages (and a 25x59B, for which I only have a case). If you know of a little brother going spare somewhere, do let me know...:tongue:

I need to update that article (and a lot of others besides!). About half a dozen prototype XM25's have been serving in Afghistan since the end of last year, and the US Army seems very pleased with them. Initial production ones are expected to begin arriving next year.
 
These are very early versions from around 2004 when it was still 2 programs and 2 weapon systems (20mm OICW and 25mm OCWS).
 

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Nice rounds! But the 25x59B OCSW (XM307) was a different beast, a tripod-mounted support weapon. This died a few years ago but ATK picked up the baton and developed their LW25 Chain Gun to fire a modified version of the ammo (with pointed projectiles). This doesn't seem to have attracted any interest either.
 
Correct. As I said, they were 2 weapon systems that they basically ended up combining the best parts of each into 1 system. The XM 29 OICW was originally 20mm combined with a 5.56 base platform, and the OSCW was a 25mm crew served. They essentially killed both systems in favor of creating one new system. They OICW was too damn heavy due to the requirements of a more sturdy frame on the 5.56 platform. This was because someone decided that since it was an individual combat weapon it had to have a bayonet lug (no, I'm not kidding) and that required adding weight to the platform. I don't recall why the OCSW was being shelved as a platform but if I recall, it was around the same time and re-invented at the XM307 which was killed off in 2007.

On a side note, in that same time frame they had already started working on the XM 25 stand alone system and the ammo as we were modeling it into "America's Army", the video game. They ended up witholding it from the game because the weapon was too effective and ended up killing game play.
 
I don't want to prolong this unnecessarily but my perspective on the history is rather different.

We agree that the 20+5.56mm OICW and the 25mm OCSW were entirely different projects, one a shoulder-fired semi-auto and one a crew-served full-auto mounted on a tripod, with an effective range several times greater. In effect, the OICW was meant to replace the 40mm LV systems and the OCSW the 40mm HV AGL systems.

The OICW (by then designated XM29) then ran into weight problems so they dropped it in favour of the XM25, which was closely related but lost the 5.56mm element to save weight, and had the calibre increased to 25mm to increase effectiveness. However, the range if anything decreased slightly compared with the XM29 and since the XM25 is still a shoulder-fired semi-auto it does not compare in any way (other than the accident of calibre) with the long-range OCSW (renamed XM307) and could not be considered as a replacement for it.

The reason the XM307 was dropped was probably that similar airburst performance was becoming available in 40mm HV AGLs, especially the MK47 Striker which was designed for them. So you could say that the old 40mm HV calibre "saw off" the XM307 by being adapted to match it.

Of course, airburst technology is now being applied to 40mm LV grenades as well and, perhaps more significantly, to the new 40mm Medium Velocity rounds which match the range of the XM25. Rheinmetall's new self-loading 40mm MV gun is a direct competitor for the XM25 and may well limit its sales.
 
Sorry if I didn't fully explain. I did not mean to imply that the XM25 was a replacement for both as it was not. What I was getting at was that the selection of the 25mm for the XM25 was a result of the 5.56 KE component being removed from the OICW system. The 20mm was a necessity when it was coupled with the extra weight and once that weight was lost they were able to move up the the 25mm ammo. I was still working at Picatinny when all this was going on but had transitioned from dealing in those areas already so I was only seeing bits and pieces at the end.
 
WOW what a lot of information to absorb, thank you Eodtek & Tony for very informative write ups.
NICE rounds Eodtek.
Dave.
 
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