1914 Kynoch .303 with Crown marking

[peregrinvs]

Hi,

I was rummaging through an odds and ends box in the loft earlier looking for a possible piece of Ju-88 bomber (another story...) when I came across a 1914 Kynoch made .303 cartridge case.

I decided to give it a clean and discovered someone had carefully engraved it near the top with what looks like a crown over a cursive 'M'.

I attach some pictures. Does anyone know what this is? My guess is that it was once part of an item of trench art as it looks like it has been soldered to something at some point.

But the marking is very small and it seems like a lot of effort to go to?

All input gratefully accepted.

Mark

 

[6.5MS]

These were part of a tin sent out to troops in the trenches from Princess Mary, hence the M. for Christmas 1914. They came with a sterling silver bullet . Tins made of brass with the M and a portrait in the brass of the Princess. Tins also included cigarettes etc.

 

[peregrinvs]

Thanks for that - a quick Google confirms you are right. I wonder what the odds are of finding a bullet/pencil to complete it?

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Falcon]

The mark is not from soldering, it is just where the brass has started to break down with age. The zinc has separated from the copper, leaving only pure copper which has become the dark green copper oxide on your case.

 

[EODGUY]

The above identification is correct as to what the case was used for, but it did not have a true bullet in it. The "bullet" jacket was plated, but it was the top of a small pencil that fit down into the cartridge case. The small brass box contained a pack of cigarettes, a small writing pad, a photo of Princess Mary, a small Christmas card with her best wishes and the cartridge pencil. I have attached a photo of the one in my collection. The cigarette is reportedly original, but I can't vouch for that. The card is behind the small box, but I could not get it into the photo. The "bullet" in my photo appears to be darker than it actually is for some reason. The only thing I am missing is the tablet to complete this box (Less a few cigarettes of course) and someday I might stumble on to one.

 

[6.5MS]

The bullet is not a real bullet but they are not silver plate but hollow sterling silver and each is marked as such.
Great to see such an original tin and contents! Difficult to find now - even the tins are becoming more difficult to find!

 

[ben2000]

Here's Mine

This in my Mary Christmas Tin, Has the unopened pack of tobacco and what i think is the original pipe that was also given out with the smokers tin.

I also have the bullet pencil, see this thread: http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/lost-found-t74235.html?t=74235&highlight=mary

Ben.

 

[TonyE]

Thanks for that - a quick Google confirms you are right. I wonder what the odds are of finding a bullet/pencil to complete it?

Cheers,
Mark

If you think Google is the answer to your prayers why didn't you do that first? Why ask the question if you are not going to believe the answers without checking Google?

TonyE

 

[EODGUY]

Super set Ben. Didn't know there was also a pipe. We don't see many of the brass boxes over here in the US and when we do they are usually empty, but I don't think they are very common in England either from what I hear. Bob

 

[peregrinvs]

If you think Google is the answer to your prayers why didn't you do that first? Why ask the question if you are not going to believe the answers without checking Google?

It would appear I didn't phrase my sentence very well. I meant that having learned what it was from 6.5MS post, I then conducted some searches using Google to 'flesh out' what he had told me, find some pictures, etc.

I had tried searching for information prior to my post, but hadn't got anywhere as I was working on the hunch it was a trench art item of some sort. It would certainly have never occured to me that it was part of a gift box from a princess, had been converted into a pencil, etc.

Mark

 

[ydnum303]

Was told some time ago that the boxes had either cigarettes, or tobacco if you were a pipe smoker, or chocolate for the non-smokers.

Also that the sterling silver "bullet" jacket was for officers, the men being given cupro-nickle ones. The cases used were any fired .303" available, so you will see them with headstamps from lots of different makers.

R.

 

[TonyE]

Sterling silver

That very well may be true, but I was led to believe that the rounds with the Sterling silver envelopes went to the Royal Navy as the senior service, and that the army ones were cupro-nickel. I have had several over the years but they have all been CN.

It would be interesting to find out the truth about this.

Regards
TonyE

 

[6.5MS]

From memory the boxes were supposed to have lighters and because of supply difficulty the Navy tins without lighters were substituted with the silver bullet pencils. The Army tins had a 'normal' bullet pencil. I believe the contents for colonial armies were different again. Silver pencils were Navy though.... I believe!

 

[relbut]

Re "Bullet" jacket

I had always thought that the Queen Mary "Biscuit Tin Cartridges" were fitted with a hollow jacket Sterling Silver bullet. Those that I have seen at auctions specified "Sterling Silver Bullet" and I have not seen or heard of any with hollow Cupro Nickel bullet jackets. The one I have is Sterling Silver with the original pencil and headstamped R^L 11 VII. The going rate for these cartridges at auction is usually around A$100.

Les

 

[ydnum303]

The plot thickens!

Further investigation took me to a useful article on the IWM website, which told me a lot about the differing contents of these brass boxes, but did not state categorically why there were 2 different types of bullet jacket.

However, in a conversation with another .303 collector of long standing he told me that he had understood that originally all the bullet jackets were silver, the ones made at the start all being hall-marked, and later ones being stamped either "Sterling Silver" or just "Sterling". The initial intention with these boxes was to give them to all those soldiers at the front and all Navy personnel at sea at Christmas 1914, but subsequently the scheme was widened, and just about anyone who served in any capacity received one. (My grandfather did, and he didn't join up until 1915!). I understand that eventually about 2 million of these boxes were made and distributed. Because of this, the cost of silver bullets was thought to be too high, so for the later ones, CN was substituted. Can anyone substantiate this?

Roger.