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1904 Shell Case

J

JustinF

Well-Known Member
Hi All,

Another 'unknowm' (to me) from my collection. The base has lots of stamps: '1904' 'X' '42' 'C.FF F. an A in a circle. 'R.L' 'I' 'PH63'. The screw in detonator has 'VI' 'N' and a E in a diamond. There is a cartridge that goes into the detonator and this appears to then fire whatever was in the hexagonal item (stamped with the broad arrow, 'N' and 'R.E & S' in a shield) that screwed onto the detonator in the casing. It seems a complex way of firing!

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Justin
 
Maybe

It looks like an adapter has been soldered to the casing to fire a primer , the kind used with bag charges, if so this is a low pressure device, maybe for a flare or to launch something ? A clear reading of the markings might help ?? very odd
 
Case.

Looks like a 4.7 inch case,these were used over a long period,the pronounced primer is the give away. As for the plate and spring,no idea.I might be wrong though!(120mm x 404mm Long.)
 
I believe the screw-in gadget is an Adaptor Mk VI that was used to allow cases originally designed for electrically-fired primers, to use percussion or electric Vent tubes instead. The stick you show is a Vent tube, that is inserted into the adaptor.
The hexagonal gadget with holes in it is a Metal Igniter, which contained powder and ensured full ignition of the cordite.
The other item appears to be a Felt Wad which went at the case end.
Dunno about the spring and the circular plate.. could be the lid, which was removed before firing. Is the circular plate concave ?
 
Last edited:
Case

HI
A in a circle: The case has been repaired and annealed (point after for twice annealed)
E in dianond for not been fully inspected
C FFF, reloaded three times cordite filling
Percution holder Mk IV for IV
It's seem to be a 4.7 in case cutting
It's possible a system for testing pressure in the case?
 
1904 case id

Agree with doctor as to meaning of letters etc but add, if its nominally 402 x 150 rimm dia its the common size of 4.7in but there is a few different lengths, but from the proportions of the photo couldit be a 12pr 8cwt Naval case? size 198 long x 104 rim. The use of an electric or percussion tube in the protruding adaptor allowed for using the gun if the electric firing circuit failed.
 
Hi,

Thanks for all your replies, I believe that the lid (its concave) was just for storage, I have seen a box of simular cases and these had the same lid with the spring, I think it was to hold them in place in the case. I will try and find the picture.

The Mark IV adapter also unscrews (with some persuasion).

Justin
 
It would help if you could post the case length and mouth diameter, but I think the case looks too small for a 4.7" one. I believe it is a 12 pounder British Naval case. These were made and marked in 4cwt, 8cwt, 12cwt and 18cwt, all of which were in different case lengths. (cwt referring to hundredweight). There may also be a 6cwt case but I have never seen one. Your case looks like the 8cwt version.

The primer is standard to the type of case and the other comments are spot on - the shape of the primer also facilitated extraction of the case from the gun after firing. Rounds were separate load and the cut-outs in the mouth held a white metal lid/disc which kept the contents dry, helped seat the projectile in the gun and was consumed on firing.

A number of these have 'surfaced' over the past few years usually being 12pdr 12cwt cases with the cap and spring, all from wrecks along the south coast. I have one of these cases with spring in my collection. As to the spring on top, I have seen nothing in print but I'm sure these were for packaging as Justin says. The lid could be concave due to water pressure, the one I have is flat.

BD :tinysmile_grin_t:
 
just looked in the 1915 treatise vol2 page 490 re 12pr boxes all cwts similar and quote '' Packing pieces are provided, fitted with brass spring cups to fit over the mouth of each cartridge'' .
perhaps this is the spring cups referred to. alas no pictures.
 
Question ?

Hi Justin, Does the central "primer" have any markings and is there a percussion cap that is either electric or percussion ???

Thank you.

Chris :tinysmile_shy_t:
 
Hi Chris,

The base is marked with the broad arrow, and either 'G M' or 'C M'.

There is'nt what I would call a ordinary percussion cap in the base (thinking of what you would see on a .303).

I will take a picture when the batteries have recharged!

Justin
 
Hi,

The case length is 200mm and the mouth diameter is 85mm.

Justin

Burney Davis said:
It would help if you could post the case length and mouth diameter, but I think the case looks too small for a 4.7" one. I believe it is a 12 pounder British Naval case. These were made and marked in 4cwt, 8cwt, 12cwt and 18cwt, all of which were in different case lengths. (cwt referring to hundredweight). There may also be a 6cwt case but I have never seen one. Your case looks like the 8cwt version.

The primer is standard to the type of case and the other comments are spot on - the shape of the primer also facilitated extraction of the case from the gun after firing. Rounds were separate load and the cut-outs in the mouth held a white metal lid/disc which kept the contents dry, helped seat the projectile in the gun and was consumed on firing.

A number of these have 'surfaced' over the past few years usually being 12pdr 12cwt cases with the cap and spring, all from wrecks along the south coast. I have one of these cases with spring in my collection. As to the spring on top, I have seen nothing in print but I'm sure these were for packaging as Justin says. The lid could be concave due to water pressure, the one I have is flat.

BD :tinysmile_grin_t:
Click to expand...
 
Thank you !

JustinF said:
Hi Chris,

The base is marked with the broad arrow, and either 'G M' or 'C M'.

There is'nt what I would call a ordinary percussion cap in the base (thinking of what you would see on a .303).

I will take a picture when the batteries have recharged!

Justin
Click to expand...
Thanks Justin, look forward to seeing a picture of it.

Chris :tinysmile_shy_t:
 
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