1845 relic.....

[V1coy67]

Hello all. First off, sorry about the photos of photos but i dont have this item personally but have been asked to help id it and what it was fired from by a family whose father found this years ago on his farm and wanted to try to find more out about it before he passes. The info i know so far......
Found in New Zealand in Ruapekapeka , Far north of the north island. The newzealand land wars between Maori and english were fought in Ruapekapeka in 1845. I know they did use Armstrong guns of 6 and 9 pounds but this projectile is only 2 and 3/4 inches across and 3 inchs high. It has 5 holes around the base with a hole( unsure of size) in the base of the projectile. It had a wooden plug in the hole in the base which when removed an amount of powder poured out of the projectile. Any help in finding out the gun it was fired from would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Unidentified Item;

Sir:
I don't think I can I.D. this as an artillery projectile. First, I don't believe it to be of any Armstrong size or design, that I am aware of.
Second, if that is supposed to be a wooden time fuze it would most assuredly be blown into the oject's cavity at firing, causing an inbore explosion. Al known wooden time fuae adapters were located on the nose of a projectile and away from the propellant charge.
My guess, it is the warhead for a small rocket. As the rocket motor burns to an end it would ignite the wooden time fuze. Seconds later an aerial burst. Congreve and Hale made rockets during the 1850-60s.
And that is the best I can guess.
Best Regards,
John aka Bart

P.S. for Hale rocket see:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://web.ukonline.co.uk/stephen.johnson/arms/amm41.jpg&imgrefurl=http://web.ukonline.co.uk/stephen.johnson/arms/&h=502&w=360&sz=13&tbnid=Bz-rxBt1_rdIOM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhale%2Brocket&hl=en&usg=__IZe4U26MjwIExPItOcA0x4sW2Q4=&ei=TMETS9foNYjZnAfVl-XMAw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image&ved=0CA0Q9QEwAg

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hale Rocket;

Sir:
Attached is more documentation on the Hale Rocket. They were sold by Britian to any country that would purchase them
Known sizes are 2.25", 3" and 4 inch diameters.
Data courtesy of Mr. Peter George, author of "Field Artillery Projectiles of the American Civil War".
Regards,
John aka Bart

P.S. I attempted to upload a Word or PDF file which told about this rocket but for some reason they would not post. Perhaps the webmaster can advise me. They were well within the recommended file size.

 

[V1coy67]

interesting

Thanks alot for the info so far. Following your lead i have now discovered some pictures of Hale rocket heads that are identical to the one found here and also reference to a 2.75 inch tube made between 1861-1865 . The problem i have with this is that the battle of Ruapekapeka which is where this was found was fought in 1845? I have found info now that says there was a large amout on Congreve rockets used at Ruapekapeka but i cant find any Congreve rocket heads that look like the one i am trying to ID..... Do you know if there were Congreve rocket heads that were the same appearance as Hale rocket heads? I can feel we are getting close but the dates dont seam to line up? Unless there were Hale rockets bought to New Zealand around the 1860s and the area that it wwas found may have been used as a practice range and nothing to do with the actual battle of 1845?
Thankyou for your help so far John
Regards
Terrence

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hale Rocket;

The head shown is a Hale, Congreve heads are shorter for the most part. Again. Britian sold Hales and Congreves to anyone that would by them.Congreve appear to be better know that the Hale.
Please polst your images of the Hale.
The key may be in the Congreve's diameter of 2.25 inches of known recoveries. Use calipers to measure your warhead and you will find that it is closer to 3 inches (Hale).
Also se:
http://kgdragons.vsb.bc.ca/student_projects/cultural/new-zealand/history.html

Regards,
John

 

[V1coy67]

hale relics.

The rocket head is at the other end of the country unfortunatly so cant measure it myself but in the letter that they sent me it states it is 2 3/4 (2.75) inches x 3 inches high.

Below is a link for a 2.75 inch Hale rocket launcher?
http://www.prices4antiques.com/mili...-Launcher-Civil-War-Union-Tripod-D9838995.htm

So like i say, The history books say they had Congreve rockets at Ruapekapeka but it would appear that the one dug up by the farmer is a Hale rocket produced between 1861-1865? Unless the picture iv just posted here may have been mistaken and are infact Congreve?

 

[V1coy67]

????

I was also just having another look at the picture you posted John, Could it be possible the pic is infact a picture of a Congreve and not a Hale? Just looking at the base of it? Looks like a Congreve with the center post base plase from when they changed from a side mounted pole? From the other complete Hale rocket pictures iv seen they look to have the 3 vanes on the base to make it spin for acurracy? But please dont think im trying to tell you how to suck eggs as my entire knowledge of these rockets equates to 2 days!! lol You have been a great help so far.
Regards

 

[V1coy67]

???

Im guessing it could be a post war Hale . I will try to find out if NZ (british troops in NZ) ever had Hales or if they only had Congreve?

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hale Rocke;

In your photo the two at left appear to be 3" Hales; third from left looks like a 4" Hale; can't make out the next one; the one at far righ is either a Congreve or a broken frag of a Hale.
I still believe the diameter is the key. I cannot find examples of a 3" Congreve. The battle link I posted above is not a detailed list of ordnance. Since the Congreve was a better known rocket perhaps the Hale was left out.
I say "if it flys, quacks and looks like a duck, then it must be one"
Happy to help.
Regards,
John

 

[V1coy67]

Many thanks Sir
I will pass this info on th the family and make an elderly chap very happy no doubt. Thanks for the help. I am just waiting on some more info re: a terrible scetch of a projectile someone else is trying to ID from around the same area but i believe to be alot more modern? But time will tell
Regards
Terrence