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16mm Kynoch for Vickers & Lot 1 Hispano

hicky1300

hicky1300

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys

The sort out continues & I am trying to catalogue my collection as well!!!
I know I`ve posted about the 16mm case before - but please humour me!
I would really like more info on the 16mm case as I have yet to see a picture of one, no mention of it in rapid Fire by A G Williams, nada on Google.

The case is 99mm long overall, Head is 22mm dia, rim is 18.5mm dia, case base 23.5mm & base of neck is 20mm. Headstamp is K38 & 16mm in italics??!!
Upon close inspection it appears to me that this has never had a primer fitted nor a bullet (I`d expect there to be witness/crimp marks).

The other case is a standard 20 x 110 Hispano & was about to add it to my sale/swap pile. I then noticed the Headstamp - LOT 1 81 20MM.
As per the 16mm case this doeas not appear to have ever been primed or crimped/loaded.
I have never seen a Lot 1 let alone owned one before now! Do Lot 1`s actually get issued/used?

Anyone tell me what projectile should be in it & if you have one spare (pics)? - or would that spoil the originality/authenticity of this case?
Cheers all
 

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Hi H,
no help with the 16mm I'm afraid but have just had one of those Hispano's id'd as a Factory dummy from kynoch by Roger.
Any chance of a clearer photo of the 16mm headstamp?

Tony
 

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16mm Vega

This looks like a 16x99RB Vega, a post-war US experimental based on a 12.7x99 (.50 Browning) case , necked out to 16mm with the rim turned down a little. The book by Jean Huon on military rifle and machine-gun ammunition has an entry on this cartridge. Not at home so relying on memory LOL
 
Sorry, but I missed your post on the 16mm Kynoch.

It is nothing to do with the .661 or any of the other rounds mentioned, but was a Vickers initiative dating from 1938. I have the drawings for this and would be interested in trading you for it.

Regards
TonyE
 
Hi Tony

I recall you were helpfull about this item last time & enquired on the Forum & thanks everyone else for your thoughts/input.
I had a good go at sorting my collection last year & trying to catalogue it - hence why I thought I`d try to see if anyone knew any more.
I appreciate your offer to swap it Tony, but will hang on to it as it appears to be fairly uncommon & is a nice talking point in my collection.
If you have the dimensions for the projectile & were willing to let me have them/a sketch I would appreciate it as I would turn either a wood or brass dummy one.
Would the projectile been just a lead with copper/cupro jacket or possibly steel (AP) or steel (like SmK) core with jacket.
I`m inclined the imagine it a looking like/being a larger version of the Boyes AT rounds? If so I may make the proj in stainless
Whilst I have you - is there any insurer/body that can advise as to value & insuring? Reason I ask is not only does my collection (like all) have an intrinsic value, but I would like to know it was covered as a seperate item & not just on contents?
 
A pity you do not want to trade it, but never mind. Just think of me when (not if) you change your mind, I am sure I have lots of interesting things to offer!

I have attached a drawing that shows the projectile, which is steel cored with a lead tip filler. That gives you the dimensions should you choose to make a replica. Personally, I do not like the idea of "faux" projectiles for an interesting round like yours. I think they detract from the history of the original case which as you say has never been loaded. The case itself can stand alone as part of the collection. I have a number of unusual cases that have never been loaded and prefer to keep them that way.

However, it is your case and you are entitled to do as you wish. Please just make sure you do not mark the neck though!
16mmVicksmall.jpg
Regards
TonyE
 
Cheers for that Tony

Must admit my gut feeling was to do as you say & leave it alone - although `complete` rounds always `appear` more realistic/credible?
I am chuffed to have it in my collection & am trying to recall how I came by it!!!
Definitely didn`t buy it & for some reason a sort out at Bracht springs to mind?
 
Putting a dummy projectile in it won't harm the case as long as you make it the right size. What would be ideal is a size that can slide into the neck without force and can be easily removed without marking the case. As the original would have been CN jacketed, if I was making it I would use turned aluminium.
 
Like beauty, it is all in the eye of the beholder, but an interesting case with a fake projectile is a lot less credible to me that just the case! This may sound arrogant, but you will not find any of the world's serious researchers and collectors making fake projectiles to make their rounds look more "realistic".

Be happy that you have a very nice 16mm case, one that is very scarce, and don't spoil it by trying to make it look what it is not.

Regards,
TonyE
 
Hello, From the wet coast
You have a supper case. Please don't mess with it. Evenif you find a correct proj.,keep them together
but dont try to reload them. O K if it was a fired case. However it,s up to you.
Just my two bits worth.
Good collecting Frank
 
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