14.5mm x 114mm. Chinese???

[christhurston]

Hello All,
The latest addition to my small selection of HMG rounds was described by it's supplier as possibly Chinese,no pics I'm afraid,but it's a steel cased,rimless,bottleneck round 14.5mm x 114mm with a 25mm base diameter.It has a brassy coloured lacquer coating and a red annulus around the primer cap,above the primer it has either 86 or 96,and under the primer SIE or SIC,it's not too clear under the lacquer.
I'm guessing that it's a round for the Chinese clone of the Russian ZPV HMG,but it might be something completely different,of course,any thoughts ????

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Api ?

Hi Chris, the only Chinese rounds I have seen were for the KPV HMG and they were A.P. with steel brown Lacquered cases with a black anulus and neck mouth, cannot remember what headstamp they had other than it was very basic i.e. just one number and one letter or two numbers only !

Bullet jacket will also be soft steel with heavy copper plating with a hardened steel core swaged into the jacket within a thinlead sleeve over a small amount of inc mixture.
Is your bullet the same as the one below ?

 

[christhurston]

No clues from the bullet,I'm afraid,it was sold as having non original replacement.It does look very much the same,funnily enough!!!!

 

[TonyE]

14.5

Any chance of a picture? The Chinese arsenal codes usually end in a "1" and are two to four digits long. 611 is a typical code.

I have not seen "brass" coloured steel cases from China and I cannot think of any Chinese connection for your "SIE" code. The other number is almost certainly the date.

Regards
TonyE

 

[christhurston]

No pictures I'm afraid Tony,the sending of images is still a work in progress.
My lengthy reply has once more disappeared into cyber oblivion,I really do need to try using more than one finger!!!

 

[GI Zhou]

611 is the factory

When you read Chinese headstamps 611 is one of the factories trhat produce the ammunition.

 

[MT-LB]

The early dated Chinese 14,5 have been brass washed steelcase - have at least a dummy with that casetype, but can only post a pic at the weekend.
Erik

Any chance of a picture? The Chinese arsenal codes usually end in a "1" and are two to four digits long. 611 is a typical code.

I have not seen "brass" coloured steel cases from China and I cannot think of any Chinese connection for your "SIE" code. The other number is almost certainly the date.

Regards
TonyE

 

[GI Zhou]

New Chinese 14.5 x 114mm cartridges and colour codes 1958 - 1957

Chinese defence industries have developed the following 14.5 x114mm cartridges:
DGJ02 AP-T 14.5 x 114mmhttp://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=116770#_edn1

The DGJ02 AP-T cartridge uses a 45g tungsten penetrator, wrapped in a discarding sabot with dual colour tracer to aid ranging. The sabot splits and leaves the penetrator between 150 to 200m from the muzzle. It has a muzzle velocity of 1,250m/sec and is quoted as being able to penetrate 20mm of armour plate set at an angle of 500 at 800m.

DGE02 APHEI 14.5 x 114mm[ii]

The DGE02 APHEI cartridge weighs between 175 and 188g. At 800 m it is quoted as having a 90 percent chance of being able to penetrate 15mm of armour plate set at 300. At 300m after penetrating a 2mm soft steel plate (representing an aircraft skin) it can further penetrate a 1.2mm thick steel plate producing 20 fragments. Upon explosion between 75 and 95 incendiary pieces are formed which have an 80% chance of igniting aviation fuel.

M203 API-T 14.5 x 114mm

Developed for export, the M203 cartridge is identical in performance to the Type 56 14.5 x 114mm cartridge.

CS/BFD06 14.5 x 114mm

The CS/BFD06 is a high-explosive incendiary cartridge built for export. It has a total weight of 180g, an overall length of 156mm with a muzzle velocity between 980 to 995m/sec and a chamber pressure of 319MPa. At 1500m it can penetrate 1.0mm of 08F steel then a 2mm aluminium plate with 90% success rate coinciding with an incendiary ignition success rate of also 90%.

These are the official colour codes for the period 1958 - 1957

Colour Identification of Chinese Small Arms Cartridges from 1958-1987http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=116770#_edn1

Lead Core No colour on projectile

Steel Core Prior to 1975 silver tip and from 1975 no colour

Incendiary Red tip

Incendiary Tracer Red tip

Tracer Green tip

API Prior to 1967 black tip with red band. After 1967 tip changed to black only

API T Prior to 1967 purple tip with red band. From 1967 tip changed to purple only

Explosive flash White tip

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=116770#_ednref1 . Tudigemiong zhanzeng guochandan zhijie (xia), Qingbingqi, 2007 Niandi, 6 (shang) Qi ,
Zhongdi 248, pp. 16 18.




http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=116770#_ednref1. DGJ02 shi 14.5mm wuxin tuke chuanjie ranshao yeguangdan, Qing Bingqi, 2005 Niandi, 2 Qi,
Zhongdi 192 Qi, pp. 21 & 22.


[ii] . DGE02 shi chuanjie baozha ranshao dan, Qing Bingqi, 2005 Niandi, 2 Qi, Zhongdi 192 Qi,
pp. 22 & 23.