12 bore cartridge question

[spotter]

I have a 12 bore shotgun cartridge which came from Bigdaves collection, those who knew dave will know he was into ww2 stuff.. Is this cartridge ww2 issue or just a civilian one thats snook into his collection.
Headstamp Eley-Kynoch 12 ICI.
External printing ..
EBL logo
Eley
Grand prix
Cartridge
Eley loaded with a Nobel smokeless powder
Made in great britain
The closing cap thingy is stamped with number fives..
Thanks for looking
Allan
Just in case anyones worried i have a live item, on receiving it i sectioned it so its visually inert and when doing so found it had previously been emptied and had resin in place of the propellant

 

[BMG50]

They are post war from the 50s 60s era. Shot many a paper case Eley exactly the same as these.

 

[Falcon]

The number fives stamped on the closing cap (known as the top wad) is the size of the individual lead shot pellets. Generally the higher the number, the smaller the shot are. Number 5 is commonly used for pheasant, 6 is for smaller birds such as pigeons. 7, 7 1/2, 8 are usually used for clay pigeons.


As far as I know, shotgun cartridges are legal to possess with no certificate as long as they have five or more pellets below .36" diameter.

You are usually asked to show a shotgun certificate to purchase them, but they are not recorded on the certificate as Section 1 rifle ammunition would be.

There was talk of this part of the law being changed, so I cannot be sure it is still worded in that way.

 

[2pounder]

as far as I know Falcon is totaly correct but you have to have a shotgun cert to purchase ammunition for it unless the shot are big or its a solid shot then you need an Firearms cert with that item listed.

 

[glevum]

From the CPS website

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms

see under "Choosing the Charge" about half way down

• Section 1 and section 2 do not require the weapon to be loaded. No certificate is required for possession of shotgun cartridges

If you are a prohibited person under section 21 then you cannot possess cartridges

 

[tomsk]

The minimum amount of pellets is 9 for a section 2 cert below this number is sec 1 and yes you need a certificate to buy shotgun cartridges but you don't need a certificate to own live shotgun cartridges.

 

[smle2009]

Just for interest here are the few sectioned 'military/government' SG carts I have L to R special trapshooting, spherical ball, tracer, LG and SG, which brings me to question about the LG & SG, I was always led to believe they stood for 'large game' & 'small game', but looking at the shot in the SG it can't be (somewhat overkill for a rabbit!), the only difference between the two is two sizes of shot in the LG.

Tony

 

[reccetrooper]

LG and SG are indeed referred to as Large Game and Small Game. I used to think SSG was Special Small Game, but Special SG and SSG are different sizes.

Still trying to figure out what a W top-card would mean.

 

[smle2009]

Thank you reccetrooper, I agree that they are referred to as Large game and Small game but I do have serious doubts if that is correct, there would be nothing left of small game using shot that size, another difference I have noticed is LG is marked L.G. and SG is marked SG.
I have only come across one SSG and it was 16 bore.

Tony

 

[reccetrooper]

Thank you reccetrooper, I agree that they are referred to as Large game and Small game but I do have serious doubts if that is correct, there would be nothing left of small game using shot that size, another difference I have noticed is LG is marked L.G. and SG is marked SG.
I have only come across one SSG and it was 16 bore.

Tony

I think it depends on what you consider to be small game, taking into account the variety of animals within the extent of the former British empire.

I have also read of the G meaning Goose.

The Wikipedia page states it means Grapeshot, but .36” seems too small for Large Grapeshot.

 

[Dutch]

If I understand it correctly, this must be, a 16 bore small game hunting round.

 

[reccetrooper]

If I understand it correctly, this must be, a 16 bore small game hunting round.

No not a hunting round. It is a 16 bore buckshot load made for the British Home Guard in WW2.

37,000 SSG were ordered from ICI Metals in February 1941, the order was amended in the order book from SSG to SG (date not certain) and a further 163,000 ordered in March 1941 to make a total of 200,000 16 Bore SSG and SG cartridges.

 

[BMG50]

Here are converted 28gauge balistite cartridges for the 2" mortar converted to shot shell, they are marked with a black band. Originally they would be would be marked ICI II in red for 47 grains and the other in ICI II in black 55 grains until they changed to 50 grains with different cartridge markings. The different between mark 1 and mark 2 was the way the Balistite was arranged in the case.

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

On my AT course we were taught that LG meant Large Game and SG meant Small Game.

 

[Petrock]

The number fives stamped on the closing cap (known as the top wad) is the size of the individual lead shot pellets. Generally the higher the number, the smaller the shot are. Number 5 is commonly used for pheasant, 6 is for smaller birds such as pigeons. 7, 7 1/2, 8 are usually used for clay pigeons.


As far as I know, shotgun cartridges are legal to possess with no certificate as long as they have five or more pellets below .36" diameter.

You are usually asked to show a shotgun certificate to purchase them, but they are not recorded on the certificate as Section 1 rifle ammunition would be.

There was talk of this part of the law being changed, so I cannot be sure it is still worded in that way.

What a useless waste of time to make ammunition illegal or recorded. People that commit crimes don't have permits or respect laws.....

 

[pzgr40]

What a useless waste of time to make ammunition illegal or recorded. People that commit crimes don't have permits or respect laws.....

Hence, it's easier to try to screw law abiding citizens with a few colletable cartridges. Low hanging fruit...