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Live ammo on SA?

LCplCombat

ORDNANCE APPROVED
Ordnance approved
No link I'm affraid, I got it from another forum.

Walgrave in Northampton.



The father of a teenager who was injured when a mortar he had dismantled exploded said he ‘was very lucky not to lose his life.’
Luke Stillman, 16, from Walgrave, suffered the injuries to his hands when the explosive he bought off the internet detonated.
His father Terry told the Herald & Post that his son was a collector of military items and they were told that the Spanish 81mm mortar round had been disarmed before he bought it from a specialised action site for 46 and had it posted to his home.
The mortar, when in use, is described as a ‘cluster munition’ and is typically used on the battlefield to combat troops and tanks.
Mr Stillman said: “Luke collects military bits and pieces and we bought him the mortar on the strict belief that it was inert.
“Like all boys his age, he likes stripping things down and putting them back together but it turns out that the detonator had not been removed.
“He was very lucky not to lose his life because when it went off he was standing up but the injuries he sustained did not look very nice at all.”
Luke suffered burns to his hands and has lost the top of his index finger and thumb after the explosion and has missed time at school due to the accident.
Mr Stillman says that he has been in contact with the specialist auction site where he bought the item which has since banned the seller.
He added: “We have been in contact with the seller but he denies being responsible. Right at the end of the conversation he did say, I hope your son gets better but that was right at the end.”
Police have now issued a warning about the dangers of handling similar material and are investigating under the Firearms Act how the ‘live’ mortar round came to be in his possession.
Detective Sergeant Andy Rogers, of Northampton CID, said: “This incident could potentially have resulted in Luke sustaining a much more serious injury.
“Anyone taking apart ordnance of any description should exercise the greatest care when doing so.
“Messing around with any ordnance is potentially very dangerous. If you discover ordnance of any description, steer clear and contact the police immediately.
“We need to know how this mortar round was still ‘live’ and available for purchase in this country and, to that end, we are investigating to see whether any criminal offences have been committed under the Firearms Act.”
The incident happened on September 16 but details were only released yesterday
 
Please all who are reading this, do not judge on what you have read. The SA member who sold this apparently live item was in fact me. The mortar that I got blamed for selling as live, was in fact bought from the same site earlier in the year, and was fully inert. The fuze (which I was accused of selling live) was photographed by me in the auction, completely stripped down when it was listed. The member I bought it from originally is a VERY well trusted member who we have all had dealings with, and he also has the fuze stripped down and photographed on the site when he listed it.
I was very sorry to hear of this accident, but I can assure you that I did not sell anything live, and there was not a chance that that item had been overlooked. What ever happened in that lads bedroom had nothing to do with any item that I have sold.
SA told me ages ago that the Police were investigating the matter, though I have not heard anything from them whatsoever. I have since been told that the investigation is complete (by SA) and my account was reactivated.
All in all, I was accused of something very serious without having a chance to be heard out. I understand that this boys dad is very upset, but he should know better than to just blame others before a full investigation has been conducted by the proper authorities.
 
Hi Rob,
Thanks for coming forward and explaining,that couldn't have been easy to have gone through especially in you line of work.
I do feel sorry that the kid got hurt and also feel that the report in todays paper is bang out of order.
I also wonder if the boy had brought something home from the 'Air Training Corps'.

All the best
Tony
 
I seem to have got 2 threads on the same incident at cross purposes1
My apologies to Pointblank0 if anything I said in the `other` thread was deemed personal - it was not intended as such & I wasn`t aware of your post here.
Hope it works itself out as I am sure you are not happy with the situation even when you are sure you did nothing untoward.
 
Thanks for the support guys. Hicky, I didn't think anything bad from reading your post. The problem is that things get in the paper without all the facts unfortunatly. I know I have nothing to worry about as I haven't done anything wrong, just one of those things I suppose, but yes, it is something else to have at the back of my mind.
But again, thanks everyone.
 
Hope everything turns out okay Pointblanck0 for both you and the unfortunate kid. i'm sure they'll be people calling for similar item's to be more controlled after this, they always do when the media gets involved. Even though they don't know the whole story, let's just hope it doesn't stop us from being able to collect.
 
It is interesting to note that Pointblank0 hasn’t had so much as a ‘phone call from the local police let alone receive at 04:00 hrs dig out by ‘guns R us’. From this, I’m sure we can adduce they don’t believe that the item, as sold, was anything other than inert.

1 Corinthians 13:11 - When I was a child, I spoke as a child, and I did really silly things

The story made me think of when I was a youngster and had access to all manner of ordnance. One of the silly things I used to do was fill the powder trains of inert igniferous safety fuzes with very fine safety fuze and then ignite one end. If, I ever injured myself, there was absolutely no way I could blame it on a piece of ordnance, as my Father would know I was lying – part of his job was the investigation of ammunition accidents.
 
Just jumping in here i have messaged specialist auctions and the newspapers ref some comments made in the paper plus i have also made a statement post on specialist auctions.

"Recently an incident occured in which a young boy got injured by an item ALLEGEDLY bought on specialist auctions.This made the Daily mail..in the daily mail article a statement from specialist auctions says "We also have specialists from the british ordnance collectors association who monitor what is been listed for sale" by british ordnance collectors association this is assumed to be an error and refers to the british ordnance collectors network.I would like to make it clear THAT THE BRITISH ORDNANCE COLLECTORS NETWORK IS NOT ASSOCIATED IN ANY WAY WITH SPECIALIST AUCTIONS nor any other web/auction sites..NOR DO WE MONITOR WEBSITES ....THE STATEMENT MADE TO THE NEWSPAPERS IS MISLEADING AND INCORRECT..we are a collectors site for collectors of legal to own inert ordnance and related materials"

as of yet i have not received any response,,and to be honest i dont expect to..I also listed this statement in the for sale bit of spec auctions here http://www.specialistauctions.com/auctiondetails.php?id=1540651
 
Afraid I wouldn't be holding my breqth either if I was you Spooter.
The truth/facts do not make such interesting reading & now that more people, that have no idea about our hobby, know we/this site/SA & others exist it may even lead to further unfavourable & ill informed coverage!!??
 
Hello Spotter. During all this over the last couple of months, I have found SA almost impossible to get a reply out of, to a point that I have had to give up with them now, which is a shame.

Everyone......I do apologise for all this hassle. The last thing we need is more bad ordnance press.
 
Hey Pointblank,,dont apologise no problem with you mate at all :wink:..
im just not happy with the misleading statement allegedly made by specialist auctions to the press,,
it implys bocn has specialists who monitor whats on their site.this could be mis-interpretted as its our fault, passing blame for any possible mishaps onto us
we do not monitor any websites
we are not an officialy recognised organisation we are a specialist collectors website
WE are not associated in any way with spec auctions or any other sites,

regards
SPOTTER ADMIN
 
well im already thinking for a start about temporarily closing the tip offs section to links to specialist auctions sales,untill bolo gets back from working overseas.as he will probably get some of his legal eagle buddies to look into the matter further...
 
Our current Society is obsessed with issues involving safety and blame. Because we live in a Nanny State we always have to find someone else to blame for an unfortunate incident. To try to reverse this trend, may I offer the following general advice to collectors.

If you acquire an item that once had an explosive purpose, then you, and only you, are responsible for ensuring that the item is inert. You, and only you, are responsible for the safety of yourself and others. It is not the responsibility of the seller, the auction service, BOCN, the Police, the Fire Brigade, the Army, the legal system, the Post Office, Parliament, God, or anyone else to keep you safe. It is YOUR responsibility. If you can't accept that, then stop collecting ammo and take up ballet dancing instead.

If the item you recieve is obviously a lump of old iron, fine; no problem. If it isn't, then you must find out exactly what it is and how it works. Read books, ask the experts, hunt around on the Internet. But whatever it is, do the research thoroughly before you start meddling about with it. Do not tamper with ordnance if you don't know what you are doing. If you are not prepared to do the research (or if you are still unsure), fine, no problem; just call your local firearms officer to have the thing taken away.
 
Well. My house was searched today. A warrant under the explosives act was executed. To be fair, I knew it was coming, and the DS that came to search was VERY understanding. He even rang me at work to let me know he was waiting outside as he didn't want to upset my wife. He didn't need to do that. so I was very greatful. I will have lots of explaining to do at work tomorrow though.
Nothing was taken and nothing noted down. He said that a report would be sent to his DI in the morning, so fingers crossed, this will be the end of it.
 
Hey F0031,

I totally agree with the point you are making.
When collecting ordnance it is of vital importance to be knowledgable about the items you deal with, but it can never be taken for granted that the people you deal with are equally so. So in the end you and you alone are responsible concerning safety.

However, I'd like to ad that building/gaining knowledge is the start! Only after having gained a, more or less*, sound basic knowledge (in order to be able to make at least a basic judgement on the safty of an item in advance of aqcuiring it ), one can consider starting collecting ordnance.

Naturally, iff you are not sure about the safety of a piece off ordnance, the only thing to do is to leave it well alone!

( *I say "more or less" because, concerning ordnance, there never is a guarantee that the "should be situation" is going to be the "should be situation". E.g. a fuze that malfunctioned 70 years ago is by no means certain to never function again, it may "come alive" at any given moment, a batch of brand new rifle rounds may suffer from an undetected fault in the propellant etc. etc.).

regards,

Menno.
 
I also agree,although I do think the seller is responsible for making sure an item is inert if selling an inert item and lets face it the auction site involved only allow inert items to be sold on their site,I do think sellers of inert ordnance have to be so careful these days.
Not too sure about the ballet either? can you imagine Spotter bouncing around in a tutu?..............Nooooooooooooooooo!
 
From what I understood earlier, it seemed like the kid had done something else which caused the explosion, and blamed it on the mortar. Is this still what is understood to have happened?

From the photo of the injury, it looked like even a shop bought firework could have caused it.
 
Not too sure about the ballet either? can you imagine Spotter bouncing around in a tutu?..............Nooooooooooooooooo![/QUOTE]

Only on a weekend and in private
 
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