M24 Real or Fake ?

jeeeensy · Jan 20, 2009

Hello, In the next few posts you will find photo's of a genuine M24 against various replicas I have, there are obvously many more replicas out there and these are just ones I collected over the years. ( Yeah! I know what your thinking, why? ) Well if you know what to look for at the begining you wont catch cold later on, I only bought one replica grenade and paid quite high for it, but such
is life and know I know what is real and Replica. So hopefully I'll try to point out the difference as I post.
And by the way I look at that bloody grenade every time I bid in an auction , it reminds me not to be to hasty, hopfully this thread will do the same
for you.

Fuzeman · Jan 20, 2009

Thats great thanks for sharing your knowlege with our members
Steve

waffenamt · Jan 20, 2009

Good on ya jeensy.
Ive only one in the collection and i know you say its a good `un.
Im sure that BOCN members will appreciate your series.

best

waff

jeeeensy · Jan 20, 2009

Replica one.
This one is a real cheap n nasty , the can is slighlty larger than an original with the wrong size thread, the fuse thread is mearly punched out with no thread at all ( dead give away ) The date stamp where stamped has pushed the top of the can in, see second varient of this version, same hallmarks but can has been pressed with "frag sleeve marks " and diffent colour. Also the pull cord and ball are nothing like an original.

jeeeensy · Jan 20, 2009

Pull cords,

jeeeensy · Jan 20, 2009

THis is a slighly better quality version. The steel head is a heavier steel, where petals are on bottom of can the thread collar is more curved than original where it meets the can.
No fuse well or any sign of removal of well.inside can new steel no sign of any inerting

.
The can is of the right dimensions in size and the handle is quite good with the right size top threads for the can and fuse. The fuse thread area is formed rather than straigh, more on these later. Mount a genuine can on it ( can that is fitted has lettering,, not in 43 on a pierced tab collar they didn't ) and age it a bit with an original bottom cap and threads it would probably pass of as it has very good markings, I'll be posting some piccs later about handles.

jeeeensy · Jan 21, 2009

This is a high quality replica, has good attention to detail with good markings on can and handle, top thread is not rounded at the start of thread ,its square on. ( hope this makes sence )
fuse well is good but not like an original, still nice to see one in a replica. Based on a early 1939 model with lettering on can. Right size can and threads etc:

Grenademan2005 · Jan 21, 2009

The 43 evy handle looks original for me.

CafSchumann · Jan 21, 2009

evy marked M24

Hi,
yes, I agree with you grenademan28 :
the evy handle is an original, perhaps the metal part was repainted here...
The head is a rather shabby copy as stated though.

Best Regards,

CSch

jeeeensy · Jan 21, 2009

Evy 43

Here are some more piccs of the EVY43 also a 41EVY and a 44EVY these two are 100% Genuine. I do agree agree that the 43 looks good ( trust me it's not )For reference I have removed the base thread and there are no other indentations on the base of the handle, this shows that the base thread was there from day one, also wood is to clean and not turned in beechwood, ( one could argue the what wood was available was used in manufacture ) The top collar has never been removed, it is a very tight fit, once these are removed and replaced ther never sit the same with the pierced tab assembly, they are always a loose fit once tampered with.

jeeeensy · Jan 22, 2009

Two more close ups of the Evy 43.

Under a magnifiying glass you can see that the collar has been painted before mounted onto the handle, I will confirm this later ,,or not :tinysmile_hmm_t:

Can , bottom cap and collar all identical paint so painted together with same paint then assembled.

If the handle was indeed genuine the only plausable explanation in this case would be that the manufacturer
had original stock that was never used, possible but what a waste on a replica :tinysmile_angry_t:

Andysarmoury · Jan 23, 2009

Well i am just starting to collect stick grenades and reading up on them (well i haven't got one yet but i have a handle don't laugh its a start) and i can't think of a better thread then this you are doing a great job jeeeensy i never new they were so many fakes out there.
Andy

Tmine35 · Jan 23, 2009

jeeeensy said:
This is a high quality replica, has good attention to detail with good markings on can and handle, top thread is not rounded at the start of thread ,its square on. ( hope this makes sence )
fuse well is good but not like an original, still nice to see one in a replica. Based on a early 1939 model with lettering on can. Right size can and threads etc:

The main problem in this is that the markings, especially tint stamps are far too good and clear. A few years ago I made a set of silicone stamps for marking restored items. BUT, to find a model for a good WaA-stamp I had to go thru over 100 different paper labels from tins and boxes to find one complete and clean ORIGINAL stamp!

Another case is that I once had a full box of 24 near minty M39 egg grenades, the absolutely original tint stamps on them were mostly unreadable, just some slipped shadows stamped in a haste.

Grenademan2005 · Jan 23, 2009

jeeeensy said:
Two more close ups of the Evy 43.

Under a magnifiying glass you can see that the collar has been painted before mounted onto the handle, I will confirm this later ,,or not :tinysmile_hmm_t:

Can , bottom cap and collar all identical paint so painted together with same paint then assembled.

If the handle was indeed genuine the only plausable explanation in this case would be that the manufacturer
had original stock that was never used, possible but what a waste on a replica :tinysmile_angry_t:

The last owner completed the original handle with repro pieces and paint all of the same colour. It is very easy to paint a M24 collar without paint the handle and no necessary out of the handle. I still think that the handle is original.:secruity:

jeeeensy · Jan 23, 2009

Tmine35 said:
The main problem in this is that the markings, especially tint stamps are far too good and clear. A few years ago I made a set of silicone stamps for marking restored items. BUT, to find a model for a good WaA-stamp I had to go thru over 100 different paper labels from tins and boxes to find one complete and clean ORIGINAL stamp!

Another case is that I once had a full box of 24 near minty M39 egg grenades, the absolutely original tint stamps on them were mostly unreadable, just some slipped shadows stamped in a haste.

Here are two M24s one is genuine and the other is the replica posted earlier. If you ( all members/collectors here please) were just starting to collect
and you saw this replica ( with a bit of pre-aging) ,,be honest here ? would you be able to tell if it was not genuine, bear in mine this would be the first M24 you ever handled or saw in an auction site. :tinysmile_twink_t:

Tmine35 · Jan 23, 2009

Definitely not Nick, still now after decades of collecting I can't say always if an item is a fake or real thing :tinysmile_angry_t:
As mentioned in my previous message nowadays a too good marking makes me to suspect in the first place.

But again, unclear markings hit on metal are quite opposite, usually stamps on metal are quite clear. But tools to make good stamps on metal are expensive and fake makers just stamp something unclear "lookalike" on their items.

So, when does one know enough? :questionmark:

jeeeensy · Jan 23, 2009

Funny you should ask that Reino
"So, when does one know enough?"

My wife keeps saying to me
"ENOUGH IS ENOUGH NICK "
I'll go ask her what she means
,,back later ,,maybe :argh:

jeeeensy · Jan 24, 2009

Phew ! Made it back in one piece :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

From the left the 1st is the original with its fuse well still intact, this is good but has it been fully inerted ?
the rest are replica's.

jeeeensy · Jan 24, 2009

These are all genuine and the show the fuse well area.
Some have a small hole next to the well and others are fully removed. If you run your finger round inside the bottom of the can you should be able to feel a sharp edge all or most of the way round, unless the lip has been levered opened and can serperated and then put back together and re-crimped, ( normally you can see that this has been done by the state of the lip, picc to follow.)

jeeeensy · Jan 27, 2009

M39 Replica

This one's a replica M39 Smoke Grenade.
Fuse well is wrong, top of connector is left open,
( where would you fit the delay fuse )crude threaded insert
on can is poorly constructed, ridges on handle to pronounced.

M24 Real or Fake ?

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