30mm Rarden :-)

Rardens are like busses, you dont see any for months and then loads turn up :tinysmile_fatgrin_t. Anyway got a selection of Rardens of a nice chap from evil bay, yes they pulled his auction, always e-mail the seller so they can contact you when the auction is pulled :xd:. As you can see some rarden cases with Aden heads and some American thing, but whats that hiding in the background, can't be, oh yes it is :tinysmile_fatgrin_t:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

30 MM Hispano

Once again Charlie you have got a real "good un" there and I believe pretty rare.

Thanks for sharing that with us.

Charlie said:

Rardens are like busses, you dont see any for months and then loads turn up :tinysmile_fatgrin_t. Anyway got a selection of Rardens of a nice chap from evil bay, yes they pulled his auction, always e-mail the seller so they can contact you when the auction is pulled :xd:. As you can see some rarden cases with Aden heads and some American thing, but whats that hiding in the background, can't be, oh yes it is :tinysmile_fatgrin_t:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

Click to expand...

Nice one Charlie, well done and congratulations on getting it - you probably saw the post I put on BOCN some time ago with one of those in the line up..........but you have the elusive lot 1!!!!! I've seen lots 2-5 but never 1, well done.

Dave.

Here's the link.
Dave.
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/30x172-experimental-and-t29854.html?t=29854

Great find Charlie, even nicer as it is lot 1 and has its projectile. I've never seen a one of these with its primer in place. Does anyone know why that is.

The projectile looks very much like a scaled up 20mm Hispano TP proj. Is that what it was based on?

Hi Falcon, yes that's exactly what it is, a scaled up 20mm.

Dave.

...and the case seems to have been modified from the 25x163 Hotchkiss AA round.

As I understand it, the cases were made at ROF Birtley due to them being tooled up to make 2 pounder cases and they used the same brass disks.

This case has never been fired which is why i presume there is no primer, but come to think of it, i don't think i've seen one with a primer either! It should have a standard number 12 primer in it, same as in the 2 pounder ammunition, suprise, suprise...

C.

If you put the bases of the 30x170 and the 25x163 together you will see that the dimensions are identical. I doubt that this was a coincidence.

Hi Tony,

So who and where were the 25x163's made out of interest?

They were made in France for the Hotchkiss AA gun, so would have been readily available to the British before June 1940.

More on primers.

The primer is definitely a number 12. I've been looking at cases from lots 2,3,4 and 5 today and several have the number 12 primer in them, obviously original and never removed etc.

I've looking this up in Peter Labbetts booklet on Rardens and one of the paragraphs states:

"The ICI Ltd. Drawing BK 167/247 of 1941 showed two different forms of priming, both percussion. One primer was intended to be press-fitted and the other used a standard No. 12 screw primer, as used in 2 pounder ammunition. As far as actual production is concerned it was generally the No. 12 primer that was used in 1942 but Lot 3 of 1942 at least had a different primer form, this being a screw type with the same 20mm diameter at the base as with other Lots but with the primer body itself being narrower - 11mm against 13.7mm of the No. 12 primer. Thus including the press fit type shown on the ICI drawing, there were three primer types envisaged with this ammunition."

Hope this helps.

Dave.

Charlie said:

As I understand it, the cases were made at ROF Birtley due to them being tooled up to make 2 pounder cases and they used the same brass disks.

This case has never been fired which is why i presume there is no primer, but come to think of it, i don't think i've seen one with a primer either! It should have a standard number 12 primer in it, same as in the 2 pounder ammunition, suprise, suprise...

C.

Click to expand...

Well done Charlie!
Im still looking out for Rarden rounds for you everytime im at shows.

cheers

waff

Thanks Waff, appreciate it.

Anyone going to Cheshunt Militaria and collectors Fair?

C.

Tony Williams said:

If you put the bases of the 30x170 and the 25x163 together you will see that the dimensions are identical. I doubt that this was a coincidence.

Click to expand...

I noticed this when looking at my specimens of those 2 rounds. There is no way that is a coincidence.

Falcon said:

I noticed this when looking at my specimens of those 2 rounds. There is no way that is a coincidence.

Click to expand...

There are some interesting apparent relationships which were probably coincidental though, such as the 20x110 Hispano and the MG 151 cases - although the Japanese 20x94 may have been derived from one of them.